Can GM be saved?

I had a chance to buy a 2000 GM model used for $4000,or a used Toyoto for $2000 a 1990. Bought the Toyoto and put the extra $2000 into it runs great.What does that tell you.

One of the problems at GM is the mishandling of diversity. The legal and HR departments are too focused on how many women and blacks they can promote to meet quotas, whether they are qualified or not. In most cases they are not. Let’s face it most engineering school graduates interested in vehicles are white males. GM’s technical skill set has been diluted with unskilled people to meet diversity quotas. The Asian auto companies don’t follow these rules and are better for it. They hire and promote the best people, not based on some diversity quota.

the main problem is that there are too many people talking and too few listening and too many people giving advice and too few taking those advices.

Just look here on this message board, too many posts and no one is reading them. I could open up a blog now and write an article on auto industry and there will 1000 posts on how to fix things within a day

What is happening today I was predicting back in 2000 when I saw manufacturing jobs going to the 3rd world countries for the sake of cheap labor. GM takes bailout money and opens up production plants in China, Mexico etc. not even thinking of the US workers.
This is the situation with most industires. As long as this country does not produce anything to sell and creates Wal-Mart and Burger -King jobgs only the trouble will persist and even get worse.
This is the real problem. Sure, the banks screwed-up big time, but as long as people do not have good paid jobs, nobody will buy anything no matter how much borrowed money the government dumps into these banks. And of course banks will not grant any loans to unemployed people or people who work for $5.75/hour to buy homes and cars.

My dad had bought an american car and kept hearing a thump ever time he makes a turn. After a T-bone accident the body shop found a soda bottle between the door panel. What happen to auto worker’s pride? I heard on the news from a GM worker “Today we’re making sure all the bolts are install!”.WHAT??? So if you skip a few…that OK? I will never buy any american car!!!

get rid of the union, it has and is draining GM of any potential profits, I am a used car dealer and I stopped selling domestic cars because I spend twice the money to get the cars ready for sale than I did the Hondas and Toyotas so now all I sell are Hondas and Toyotas. If they spent the money that they overpay the union workers on quality, GM wouldnt have this problem and they wouldnt need OUR tax dollars and corperate welfare!!!

I think that no bailout and bankruptcy would be the best thing for the “NOT SO BIG” three. They need to start over and get back to basics. The UAW has turned me off for years as well. It’s time for them to go. Greed (both UAW and management) have killed the US auto industry. I was always Ford or Chevy, but bought a US made Nissan for the first time. Comparable, well made in comparison to Detroit, but about $8,000 less. Decision was a no brainer. I’m done with Detriot products.

Is it a loan? Is it a grant? Is it a donation? Call it whatever…the key question no one is asking is what CHANGES will be done at GM? Otherwise we’ll be dealing with this same mess in the next 3 months, guaranteed. If the patient won’t survive the operation, why operate?

Yes, GM needs to take it’s licks just like Lehman Brothers and so many others. Their CEOs and prima donna UAWs need a hard dose of reality. Bankrupty would force them to trim down and become more competive in terms of both product line and labor costs. Take a look at this intersting video on Ford’s plant in Brazil . . .

http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

I couldn’t agree more with Dave A’s comments. I work on the other end of the industry in service. As a 10 year veteran of fixing G.M. vehicles I can tell you that the Products that G.M. puts out are some of the highest quality vehicles on the road. My family has bought G.M. vehicles since before I was born and I personally would never park anything else in my driveway that wasn’t built by them. Folks, turn off the media, make your own informed decision and buy a quality American product.

For many years I have seen problems with the big3. So let them fall into bankruptcy. They deserve it. After all they are their own worst enemy.
1)One of the problems with all of them is the fact they spend money like they have a money tree growing just outside the CEOs window.
2) They all think they know more about what the consumer wants than the consumer does. None of them will listen to the consumer for ideas. Ford once told me that “they did not need anyone outside of Ford for ideas.” “We
pay our upper level designers for that & we know more than the general public does about automobiles.”
3) The execs are way over paid. They always have been. Someone could do the same job for millions less per year and do it better.Just look what GM pays Wagoner.
4) Unions have always hurt the companies. How many of us know of companies that closed instead of letting a union push them around? I could name so many in Tn alone. You know it is the same everywhere. Union made does not always equate to quality.

5) Sending products out of the USA to be made.
Now to elaborate on my point above.
We all know that the Big3 have always been wasteful with money and the bail out is just a temporary stop gap measure. It will not fix the companies.The problem is not necessarily poor management. It is more a problem with overpaid execs. Look at what each exec makes per year.Now look at how many of these very companies have sent much production outside the USA but expects the consumers to buy the cars as American made. Look at GM ,they sent Saturn to Mexico to be made cheaper. Yet they have not reduced the price of the car even though they reduce production cost. I know the bottom line is profitability. The thing is these companies have priced themselves into this position. Many Americans can not afford to pay as much for an automobile as they paid for their home. Now days an auto will cost you $27,000 or more.Vehicles have become too expensive for many to afford and put food on the table. If the workers were not so highly paid for one the cost could be more economical. If the execs were paid in the hundreds of thousands and not in the millions then cost would be cheaper.Most of all if they didn’t waste money they could be cheaper. It is better to sell high volume at a smaller profit they would not be in this shape. Instead the big3 wants high profit off each and priced them as so and sell less. If they would listen to what we want in a vehicle then they could sell more as well. The government doesn’t bail out the small business man so why bail out the big3. Look at all the different automobile companies in the past that went bellyup. Yet the government didn’t care about them. For instance,There were over 1800 automobile manufacturers in the United States from 1896 to 1930.I’m not talking about premier or luxury car makers like Pierce-Arrow,Auburn Automobile Co.,Cord,Delorean or Duesenberg and the like.
I am talking about companies like American Motors Corp. (which was built from the ashes of Nash-Kelvinator Corp. and the Hudson Motor Car Co.), others right off the top of my head are,Checker,Essex,Tucker,Jordan Motor Car Co.,Nash,Studebaker,Hupp,Packard & REO just to name a few. Where was the government then?

I am a proud supporter of GM we the people can not let this happen.I will stand by GM through these crazy times no matter what happens!

I think GM needs to pair down their vehicles. They need to get rid of GMC, Chevy trucks are their twin. Keep only Chevy, Cadillac, Buick, and Hummer. Saturns could be morphed into Chevy and they only need to keep one or two Pontiacs if any, under Chevy. Filing for BK would allow them to get rid of the un wanted dealerships without having to pay them off. I know that sounds harse but the alternative is worse. Gm should keep the way it makes cars like they make Saturns, it seems their factories are more up to date and better then anything in Detroit. They have been mismanaged for years and need to get with it finally.

First let me state that I am not at all please to see our Government GIVING our hard earned tax money away or loaning it without ANY regulation, accountability, and stipulations in place. This is EXACTLY what was done with the immediate rush to the table to give money to Wall street. The 700 Billion PLUS bailout monies needs to be restructured before ANY more money is given out. We need to ensure the WALL Street gurus are accountable, and the Auto Industry will be accountable.

Reduce ALL CEO’s pay to $1 dollar for five years.
Alan Mullay down to $1.00 for the next five years, no bonuses, no other compensation: Max pay $1.00 for five years. If no turn around in five years or less, then Alan M fired or resign.
Rick Wagoner down to $1.00 for the next five years, no bonuses, no other compensation: Max pay $1.00 for five years. If no turn around in five years or less, then Rick W fired or resigns.
Nardelli down to $1.00 for the next five years, no bonuses, no other compensation: Max pay 1$1.00 for five years. If no turn around in five years or less, then Nardeli fired or resigns.
Chrysler, a private company, does not have to open its books now, but in order to obtain Gov monies the company must disclose all information as requested immediately.

Bankruptcy VS Bailout:
Bankruptcy has in place restrictions on what can be done, bailout at this point does not including if we Emergency loan money to March 09. The money loaned would have no restrictions compared to bankruptcy. We already have a HUGHE mess from the 700 bailout plan for Wall Street bailout package that has little to NO restrictions, basically a blank check was given. DO NOT give small amounts of money as requested because as stated by the Economist person testified today, the total amount will be far above the 34 Billion request more like 75-125 Billion.
MFG Oversight Board concept legally must have the same ability Bankruptcy restrictions imposed. In today’s testimony, the CEO’s hesitations, ‘try to compile’, sends a clear message that they do not want oversight in place. MOVING fast is NOT the best way to do business people, move in a way in which the TAX payers money is secure and safeguarded.
Financing Oversight Board, MFG Oversight Board, and the Federal Reserve MUST be united in reference to regulations, audits and what is to be expected. Currently each has its own regulations, and way they move money. This must be unified before moving forward.

Automobile Vision Comparison example of current and future Vehicles:

Ford:
Total Types of Cars: 19 vehicle types of which ONLY 0ne is a ‘Hybrid’ AND this vehicle of the future
Only gets 31-34 mpg. Less than 5 % of their vehicles are hybrids or get mpg greater than 35 mpg.

Toyota:
Total type of Cars: 20 vehicle types of which THREE are classified as HYBRIDS. However, there are
FIVE different types that get 31-48** mpg. This shows where Ford lacks vision. This must change immediately. This works out to be 25% of their vehicle production line are getting 35 mpg or greater.

GM:
Total Types of Cars: 93 Vehicles of which Seven (7) are hybrids. However, there are only FIVE different types that get between 31-35 mpg. This shows GM lacks of vision, AND over abundance of types of cars.
Less then 5 % of their vehicles are hybrids or get mpg greater than 35 mpg.

Chrysler:
Total Types of Cars: 9 Vehicles of which ONE is Hybrids. However, there are only TWO different models that get between 29-35 mpg. This works out to be 10% of their vehicles are cars getting 35 mpg or greater.

Honda:
Total types: 17 vehicles of which Eight are Hybrids. There are ten (10) different models that get between 29-48 mpg . This means 58% of their product line are cars of the future getting 35 mpg or greater.

UNION Auto Workers:
They must take Stocks, and investments into the company, not $$$$ values. They must dissolve the VEBA 21 Billion debt. They must be willing to pay more in Health Care benefits rather than the Car companies paying it. Detroit auto workers average $75 per hour. Pensions and benefits add $1500 to a car is this true?
Research:
From both the gm and Toyota website you can find “Average Labor Cost per US hourly worker”. Average hourly salary for Non-Skilled, Assembly line worker: GM: $31.35/hour (Includes idle workers still on payroll and those on protected status)
Toyota: $27/hour (Includes year-end bonus)

Do not give away our money.
MAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE for whatever package is presented.

Some advocates are saying that the Big Three are asking for a loan, not a bailout. The problem is that there is no assurance that the taxpayers will be repaid. Altogether, the Big Three have been losing money in the last three years. The business structure of the Big Three is broken and the only way it can be fixed is via restructuring under bankruptcy and a new labor agreement similar to its competitors and the rest of the US manufacturing industry.

There are many difference between the automakers and the finance firms, but the most important thing is that the finance firms were making money. Liquidity was their problem due to lack of confidence to lend funds to one another. In Detroit’s case, it is not just liquidity but the lack of profitability.

If the Big Three want money from the government, it should only be in form of “debtor-in-possession” loans after bankruptcy.

YES, bankrupcty; just like the rest of us! This will also be the mechanism to finally kill the unions that make our industries totally uncompetetive.

Bankruptcy only works if the company going bankrupt can obtain financing/credit. That is not possible with the current financial realities. Any company declaring chapter 11 bankruptcy today would quickly be forced into chapter 7 and liquidation of all of their assets. There would be NO restructuring at all. This would be the end of the automotive industry in the US.

Also, how many people would want to purchase a $20K-$40K vehicle form a company going bankrupt and liable to disappear and be unable to provide any kind of warranty. Would you?

I’m curious as to why people from other countries feel entitled to comment on an issue regarding an american company which might be bailed out by the US government. While I understand GM is a global brand, I hate to point to the giant elephant in the room, but mind you own business. You don’t get a say in the fate of an american company because you don’t pay US taxes. And since it’s the US taxpayers who are supposedly providing the bailout cash via the exorbinant taxes which we are paying, they are the only ones who should have any input regarding who gets the money, how much, when, and why. Non one asked for you 5 cents.

Yes, chapter 11 like the airlines, slim and get a new contract enforced onto UAW, sell off some divisions and let the remaining do 1 car model each.
Also under chapter 11 let all the dealers apply for renewal. Dump 90% of the consultants and MBA’s and start over making quality cars that keep the value and looks good. Saab, Corvette, saturn, Hummer, Holden, Vauxhal and Opel can be sold off to national companies.

I think the automakers should get the loans they are asking for.They should also have aid in restructuring themselves.It is kind of sad that alot of americans are against helping companies that helped build this country in a big way.Does anyone ever think of how it would be if GM,Ford,and Chrysler never existed,or failed a long time ago? What would other nations think of America if our president was driven in a Toyota,or Honda instead of a Cadillac?What would message would that put out to the world?America rushes to help other contries with thier problems,and continues to do so,when almost none of them rush to help America.America doesnt want to help its home based companies,but will quickly send aide to other places,after destroying them.This country is ASS backwards,and soon to be the laughing stock of the world.Hopefully we will start to band together and get our economy back on point,and stop relying on other countries for so many imports.”THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD” will no longer apply if we continue to let our country’s major companies go down.

When one door closes another one opens, LET THEM FAIL!!

Let the big three fail! We have cars that are still running off the same technology for over 150 yrs. There are thousands of futuristic energy efficient concept cars that should be running on the streets today. How long will concept cars be concept cars? Which are highly efficient to run off solar energy.

Look at how the cell phone industry and the laptop industry pound each other over advancements and technology to give you what you see in perceivable films of the future. Their competitive advantages are based on new features and technology at an affordable price. The cell phone companies make new strides in phone technology and software advancements every two years, as to streamline the technology for better quality, portability and to maintain market share. In the cell phone and Laptop industry futuristic concept models are only 2 years away before you can actually but it. The car manufactures futuristic concept models have been concepts for over 100 years. The Big 3 sat back and did not maintain market share by refusing to have cutting edge technology and produce reliable products.

Why aren’t cars managed by software by now? Like e very other major component in our lives. Software companies have been waiting for car manufactures for years to come up to speed for development of PAN home- office portability. Whereas you can import office files, music and maintain your car through software driven devices and laptops wirelessly and in the car, and they have FAILED.

The auto car makers should NOT currently have cars that are still using carburetors, huge V8 engines, and exasperated heat conducers. The Big three are 100 years too late to change their R&D methodology. Let them fail, and I guarantee you there will be strides in technology and you will begin to see advancements in car making by people and companies that have been suppressed for years. Car technology should be plug and play by now where as you don’t even need a technician to replace the parts. Your should be able to plug in semiconductor card or replace an engine that is less than 20 pounds and buy it over the counter at Wal-Mart by now. The Geek squad should be reprogramming your cars software by now. You should be ordering minute parts to be replaced, and plugging them in by now. Let’s make room for new ideas, fresh technology, and cars that are software driven.

Bankruptcy is exactly what GM and the UAW have earned. Decades of mismanagement, inefficiency, and horendous labor costs have resulted in the ultimate consequence. UAW has promoted a parasitic culture steeped in performance mediocrity while receiving superior pay and benefits. What other industry pays laid off workers 95% of their working wages?

Bankruptcy will force the only real change that will enable GM to survive. Perhaps the new GM can learn from Toyota, Honda and other foreign manufacturers that successfully produce superior products using American workers right here in our own country.

I don’t buy the argument that Americans won’t buy quality products from a company that emerges under Chapter 11. Companies survive Chapter 11 restructuring all the time. Congress would be much wiser to guarantee the warranties of quality cars produced after Chapter 11, assuming GM can build them, than to pour money into an industry with a failed business model.

Congress should ask GM why they are still producing vehicles Americans don’t want, and why they flood the market with inferior products and then wonder why they cannot make money.

Has this country gone insane? If the auto industry files for bankruptcy you can kiss it goodbye. It will not emerge lean and fresh, it will die. Suppliers and dealers will not survive to see the results of bankruptcy. Have you any idea how long it would take to complete a bankruptcy for a company this huge and complex? Suppliers are not going to survive that long. Do you ahve any idea how difficult it would be to rebuild the supplier base?
2 million jobs across the country, affecting everything – advertising jobs, media, sports, travel and leisure,transportation that relies on income from auto suppliers. All of these 2 million people now needing unemployment benes and govt assistance. Do you have any idea what you people are saying??? Your job will be affected too, I don’t care what field you are in, healthcare, education will not be immune to shrinking tax bases.
I understand that people are p.o’d about the private jets but honestly, do you expect them to fly commercial and run the risk of delay or cancelled flight-Sorry Congress, we couldn’t make the meeting we were stuck at the airport. They’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody’s Economy.com, joined the CEOs in urging passage of the loan package. He said the economy is too vulnerable at this moment to weather the damage that would be caused by a failure of one or more of the companies.
They are asking for the 25 b that was already set aside to assist with hybrid cars.
As usual, Republicans want to do nothing. Kudos to Nancy Pelosi for stepping up to bat for an industry that is not even based in her state. Gutsy lady.
Anybody remember right after 9/11 when GM offered 0% financing to get the economy moving? Some thanks they get now.

As painful as it may be I believe a bankrupsy or some other form of reorginazation may be the best alternative. Possibly a merger of GM and one of the others possibly chrislyer would be the best. Three major companies is too many. Also consider giving cash incentives to buyers of American built cars. Possibly a tax credit.

You are wrong! FIling for bankruptcy will cause the auto suppliers to collapse. If this happens there will be no more U.S. auto industry. What a sad day when foreign companies take away the greatest American invention. You who would sit by and let it happen, don’t be surprised when you are making $12 an hour with no benefits working for a Japanese company.

Yes, filing for chapter 11, firing the incompetent management, ditching the ridiculous deals with the abusing UAW and starting fresh is the right way to go. That will save the companies, not the bailout money.

For those who work hard and make an honest living at GM, why worry? US auto industry is not going to disappear. It just needs to go through a re-structuring pain to get rid of its problems and weaknesses. If you are skilled, talented and have your work ethic intact, then you should be able to find new job soon. I would look at the bankruptcy as an opportunity rather than a disaster. America is great because it is willing to change for the better, either in politics or technology. America is strong because of its competitive, innovative spirit and willingness to take risk.

Every day, across America, you see companies come and go. The best will survive and thrive. The incompetent, self-absorbed ones will fail. Why the ‘big’ Three should be an exception? Perhaps, nowhere this is clearer than in Silicon Valley, where innovation and competitive spirit makes it the hi-tech center of the world, and where IPod and IPhone by Apples beat Japanese competitors at their own game. Just think about it.

They are asking for a LOAN not a bailout. Don’t people remember – 1980 Lee Iacocca won a LOAN for Chrysler which he paid back in record time and the company came back, had success for 25 plus years. You people don’t understand. It is much more complicated. If anyone of these companies goes the supplier network goes and the other two will fail because of that. The effect will be HUGE. Not just on Michigan but on the whole country. Unfortunately, Unions have sucked the life and profitabiltiy out of GM. That, plus the insane franchise laws in this country. GM cannot drop an unprofitable car line without paying BILLIONS to dealerships across the country. It is more expensive to drop an unprofitable product thatn to keep making it??? WHo can run a business under those conditions?? No wonder their US operations could never get profitable..

Yes – they should go into bankruptcy. Only after they undergo a massive restructuring should we even consider any gov’t money.

I think bankruptcy would be a bad idea.

I cannot see how GM could emerge from a bankruptcy because few would buy cars from a bankrupt company. Who would honor the warranty? What would the resale value of a car be? It won’t work.

The other big reason is that if GM failed it would be the taxpayers who would be in the hook to bail out the GM pension fund, not to mention unemployment insurance payouts and loss of tax revenue. I can’t imagine how the bankruptcy of GM could cost the taxpayers LESS than $35 Billion.

I feel sorry for the AMerican motor
industry like I feel sorry for a heroin
addict on his tenth swing through rehab. All the promises have been broken. All the intentions voided.
They missed the market, they built junk
at high labor costs and poor engineering and arrogantly watched the
Japanese and the Koreans and even the
Germans outthink, outflank, outengineer
and outsell them. Arrogance is its own
reward. I could not stop laughing at the arrogant CEO’s including the union
CEO’s as they begged forgiveness once
again like teenagers apoligizing for watering the whiskey. I have bought my
last American car until I feel certain that I get value for exorbinant pricing. The unions have been living in
a dream world. I spent 14 years of post graduate education and a couple
hundred grand on school and I do not
have guaranteed health care and a guaranteed pension and I sure as hell do not get paid if I do not work.

BANKRUPTCY ASAP!!! Why is this even an issue? This is how a free market economy works. Those companies which cannot provide what the consumers want and the price they are willing to pay with the quality they desire should go bankrupt and cease to exist. This opens up the doors for new companies to cease opportunities which have been created. Holding onto to these “Big 3″ is not in any way benefiting the consumers. And just where where is this proposed money coming from – $34 billion? Oh yea we are printing money from the federal reserve which will in turn dilute the value of the dollar.

While I don’t live in USA, I hear that GM loses money in Europe, and GM is a global brand. Some countries in EU are focusing on saving auto industry here, so we are in the same kind of situation.

But I wouldn’t even consider loans. Why? To make GM profitable it either needs a steady income, or needs to reduce the costs. The later would lead to lost jobs, etc. even if the restructuring is financed by a loan from the government. Both this option and bankruptcy should lead: Keeping only essential things alive. It can be a death sentence for many suppliers.

What can the government do? While GM can be weaker than its competitors the core of the problem is: They can’t sell enough cars.

What can the Government do? Buy cars now. If the government would focus on buying hydraulic hybrid (big 3 experimented with this) cars trucks, fire trucks, ambulances, buses, etc. anything where they can use the new technology. For other purposes they would propose electric hybrids that have enough range as pure electric car for commuting and the work of most city officials and can be recharged easily (even at home).

All they need is to design a “lineup” of cars they would want, they would state how many jobs the supplier should keep in USA as compensation for the huge order, and see the big 3 as the only competitors there.

Of course the government can demand a price that means low profit but some profitability for the manufacturers, even if high production volume can make things cheaper. Also: if would force the companies to change quickly. It would save jobs.

Ohh, and if it isn’t enough… Make the Army buy some more. And if that isn’t enough, make sure the federal government when finances rebuilding efforts in Iraq and elsewhere make sure Iraq will buy some as well (they get financial help for it from US Government).

Massive loans, or bankruptcy. Hmmm…

Let me see if I’ve got this right: if we fund these big loans, we have to worry about throwing money away on a status quo that may already be beyond recovery; or, it may not.

If they go through bankruptcy, they shed all those obligations they can’t afford, like wages, pensions, and health care. Then we have to worry about the moral hazard of screwing over thousands of Americans that worked all their careers for that health care and those pensions. They also argue that a bankruptcy would destroy their brands’ credibility, but they’re way late if they’re just now worrying about credibility.

Neither of these ideas works for me.

Maybe we should look for another option. If we’re going to pay big money to keep the car industry afloat, it should be done in a way that ends up delivering a car industry made for the 21st century. In other words, if we’re going to invest, we should invest in something that has a future, or, in this case, creates a future.

It’s going to take a lot more than bridge loans, though. The new generation of cars will require suppliers of new components. In particular, we need a large-scale battery industry if we’re going to support hybrid-electric vehicles.

Suppose we contract with the Big Three to ramp up production of hybrid-electric and electric vehicles for personal and mass transport, and include terms that vest the project’s intellectual property products in the American people, to guarantee free access to the results of taxpayer-funded development.

We could provide them with markets for hybrids and electrics, as well. Federal, state, and local governments across the US already subsidize the US car industry by buying hundreds of thousands of vehicles each year. What if we changed the kind of vehicles the government buys.

Seriously, folks, if GM goes down, they take their dealer networks and supplier networks with them, and if we lose all that, unemployment suddenly spikes above 10%, and public hospital bankruptcies accelerate because of all the newly-uninsured people using emergency rooms to replace doctor visits.

Or, we could save GM, give them a new mission building more relevant transportation, relieve the health care cost issue by enacting universal health care, and end up with a thriving transportation industry we sorely need.

And once we get the transportation industry back on its feet, we have to pursue an anti-trust agenda, to break up the triopoly into enough competing companies that we can afford to let some fail again. We painted ourselves into this corner by encouraging companies to consolidate until they turned into these multi-million-job behemoths we really can’t afford for them to fail.

You can’t have a free market when a handful of companies control the market, can you?

I’ve been an engineer at General Motors for about 11 years now – part of the now significant population of employees my age or younger who work 60+ hours a week, enjoy an average salary, and who have no real retirement benefits to look forward to other than what we save our own hard earned cash for. The choice of making the sacrifice to do well in school, suffering the expense and difficulty of getting through an engineering degree, and choosing the field of automotive engineering over much easier and more lucrative options is one made out of passion for the field – not one for monetary gain.

I’ve lived my life responsibly – paying off debt, working hard, saving, buying only what I can afford. I have never asked for a bailout and do not want one. I DO support the idea of a LOAN, a level of support that all countries of all other auto-producing nations in the world provide in recongition of the importance of manufacturing in their economies. This will save the industry from the extreme damage that a bankruptcy would cause – even one fully backed by our sub-10% approval rating, debt-ridden government.

In the time that I’ve worked at GM, I’ve witnessed astounding transformation…from the last nremnants of the “insular,self absorbed producer of cars nobody wants” to a company focused on building world-class cars and trucks with quality by every ojective measure that is competitive with the best, and a driving experience that is equally compelling. To the critics who at least have a open mind, I say only to do the research and compare the facts – compare GM’s best efforts and the competition’s and to your past recollections before passing judgement on what GM’s priority has been in the past decade. Look, too, at the US auto industry’s record of innovation, both past and present (including GM’s industry leadership in developing fuel cell technology and plug-in hybrid technology).

To the folks not willing to try to absorb the facts about what GM and the US auto industry has accomplished, I offer a simple economic argument: please think long and hard about what really drives our economy. Classical economics has long held that the 4 basic wealth-producing endeavors for a nation are mining, agriculture, manufacturing, and construction, of which we’ve been slowly but surely dismantling and outsourcing. Small farms are disappearing and being relaced with McMansions. Major industries are shrinking or vanishing altogether. We are now watching 28 years of economic growth built in borrowing and spending collapse around us down to its true value. The ‘American Ingenuity’ we so fondly remember had industry to support it. I’ve tried to research and learn about this ‘new service-based economy’; for every supportive reference I can come up with I find two more deriding it. GM used to be number 1 on the Fortune 500, now it is Wal-Mart and GM is number 9 – which one of these companies supports a true middle class (hint – its initials are not WM)? Do we really want our economy to be based on borrowing mony to send overseas? Do we want our value in the world to be limited to bundling up debt in wonderous and confusing ways and re-selling it to others?

Again, please think beyond what you think affects you, and please think beyond ‘punishing’ the industry or its exucutives for past mistakes. The hard-working people actually left most definitely do not deserve it.

If GM goes Under, I see a lot of problems. But IF we bail them out I see the same. I think if Toyota and Ford can have 3 brands in the USA GM should do the same. I will miss saturn However They should should be an indpendnt label much like they were when they started in 91. except for a LTZ you can’t buy a malibu with an 8 way power seat and that comes standard in a saturn aura XR and optional on the XE. That is GM’s problem consistancy.

I would aks all three CEO what car are they driving to work or what is in their garage. If they drive their company car I would help them if not I would not. That will show how much they respect their own company or they are just for the $$$$ and drive BMW or Benz.

The bailout is good because is going to give the big 3 a slow and quiet death. The big 3 will fail with or without bailout.

GM is dead – has been for years. The others at least have a shot.

This bailout talk for automakers is insanity… Very short true story of personal experience with GM (GMAC more specifically). 2005 leased a Hummer H3, 3 year Smart Lease ending Nov 2008. For the first 24+ months, all of 2006 and 2007 no missed or late payments. In 2008 due to a slowdown at work, fell behind by 60 days yet managed to bring the account complete current over a period of 2 months (total time account was out of sync, less than 120 days, and at no point was the account more than 60 days late). During this period, and has the entire economy was struggling I was admitted to the hospital with a life threatening medical condition requiring emergency surgery -in short I am lucky to be alive. With all of these challenges, and AFTER my account was brought current I contacted GMAC in writing with a detailed explanation of my situation, pointed to my payment history, and requested either an extension of my lease, OR alternatively the opportunity to purchase the vehicle at residual value at or about the same payment I had been making for the original lease term. After getting the run around from several calls to GMAC to check on the status of my application, I get a letter stating that due to my credit and account history GMAC had no interest in working with me and offered no alternatives but to turn the vehicle in to be sold at auction (likely a loss). Now the CEO of GM is asking for $18bil of tax payer money to keep them from going out of business by the end of the year. Pure insanity and more people should be paying attention to whats happening here. I am sure there are those that will say its my fault blah blah, and maybe it is… but then again, where is the “bail out” for the rest of us? Where is the reward for hard work and honest attempts to make good on ones commitments? I took that H3 to the local GM dealer, drove across town and bought a Toyota. I will never buy another GM car, and frankly could care less about what happens to the company. I can only imagine how many other people have been through similar situations only to be confused at the very possibility of our tax dollars being used in this way.

Bankruptcy is the only possible way to save GM. The unions will not give enough and as soon as GM becomes “break even” they will demand a return of “their contracted entitlements. Bankruptcy will allow GM to clean house close factories, terminitate unsupportable contracts, shead legacy entitlements (God how I hate that word entitlements) and start over. Yes their will be pain but GM will survive and emerge to compete on a level playing field with the transplants.

I AM 100% against the bailout.

Can someone please explain to me how the econonmy will collapse if GM, Ford or Chrysler goes out of business.

If one or more of these manufacturers goes out of business there are plenty of other companies that will increase production to meet the demand of cars not being supplied by the the out of business company…yes these companies are still selling vehicles and someone will have to supply them.

With the increased production at the remainig companies, comes jobs as well as increased purchasing of product/material to manufacture these vehicles.

In the end, whoever is left will be healthier…they will be selling more vehicles at better profit margins !!

Any bailout will only feed the mismanament machine.

LET THEM FAIL! LET THEM BURN!! LET THEM SINK!!! CLEAN OUT THE WHOLE SYSTEM OF THESE OVERGROWN, BLOATED, MONEY WASTING DEAD BEAT CORPORATIONS! THEY WON’T BE MISSED. Next time let them think twice about sending jobs overseas, flying corporate jets, multi-million dollar executive pay. It’s all so insane.

We need another war. They always use inefficient vehicles. Who cares if they do not run well or last long; they get blowed up anyways!

GM can’t make it without major concesions from the UAW regarding current employee wages and benefits and same for retirees. Unions don’t do “give backs” and the only recourse is Chapter 11

A structured chapter 11 bankruptcy is better for GM and better for the American taxpayer. It is a win-win!

Subject: Outline of GM Rescue Plan
Gentlemen,

Key to the plan that GM must submit to the Congress should be a strategic restructuring of the company to take advantage of its strong points and clean up the problems in the weak ones. Specifically, it should capitalize on its overseas operations that are solidly profitable and fix the problems in the domestic operations where they currently reside.

Broadly stated, the steps required could be:

1. Separate the overseas and domestic operations into two holding corporations.

2. Spin off the shares in the profitable overseas operations to the current shareholders who already own them indirectly.

3. Put the domestic corporate operations into Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

4. Take the needed actions in the domestic arena to bring them into profitability including rationalize product lines, eliminate unneeded factories, dealers, suppliers and overhead.

5. Rework contracts to make them reasonably reflect the realities including such things as eliminating the jobs bank and other featherbedding provisions including state franchise requirements.

6. Put the domestic retirement plans into the PBGC.

7. Exchange current GM domestic bonds for new debt or equity in the international corporation.

Again broadly stated, the request that they should make of the government should include:

1. No assistance for the overseas operations.

2. Assistance in securing DIP financing from private sources by guarantees if needed.

3. Further support of the PBGC to help with the pension load.

4. Either elimination or waiver of the CAFE standards for a significant time.
5. Support GMAC with some TARP funds as may be needed but only as guarantees.

While the details of this general plan would take much elaboration to bring them to fruition, the overall results should be:

1. Current GM shareholders and bondholders would survive the reorganization.

2. Jobs would be eliminated but those will be eliminated in any event. There is no way that they can be saved.

3. The domestic corporation should be profitable in a couple of years.

4. The UAW should come out with less members making less money but the basic business would be sound and profitable for the foreseeable future thus leaving their members in a more secure position.

5. The UAW retirees would come out with smaller pensions and less generous benefits but with a sounder future.

6. The government would not have to put up much cash for the company but would have to supplement the PBGC which it is already required to do.

Implementation of this overall plan could result in Ford and Chrysler not having to go into bankruptcy but only threaten to do so to the effect that they could renegotiate their contractual obligations without it.
John Christman

Yes, a planned, controlled Bankruptcy is the only option to settle the dealership, workers, pensions, medical and other problems that must be settled NOW!!!

That is exactly how the system is supposed to work. Incompetent and inefficient business fails and makes room for better run operations. Persons working for the failed company move on to new projects and society progresses. Rewarding incompetence in banks or other private industry is no solution. Bailouts are only prolonging the inevitable and will make the final outcome worse. The real criminal part of this is the likely chance people will lose their pensions because these same incompetent directors and managers were in control of those pensions. At the very least when these companies fail all management going back 15 years should have their wealth debited for their miss management. In most cases they were receiving bonus packages when the company was losing money and increasing debt load.

They should either go bankrupt and reorganize or the UAW and GM management
need to back to step one, after managements commits to no raises or bonuses for two years.

Let them go bankrupt like others have too. Maybe they would learn to do it right. It’s time for the fat cats of big corporate worlds to wake up to the real world. No one needs the money they pay those fat cats. They should have to live on a regular salary like the rest of the real word.

Go through with bankruptcy and fair market will come out a solution automatically.
merging big 3 to one, selling most of the brands and focus on core values may be a better idea.

there is nothing on earth that can convince me that GM will turn around with a Bailout/loan, Go Bankrupt and reorginize then if GM makes it they can say they did it on there own and come back even stronger.

yes, the best way to start over

The automobile companies should not be given a bailout and should compete in the market place just like other companies and individuals.

There is NO other course than bankruptcy. The company is burning cash like it is firewood and now we seem to want to decide to give them more cash? The same men who ruined the firm will now have our billions to screw away? Who dreams up this horse hockey? Do we not remember that every drug dealer gives away the heroin at first. Why does he do that? Because he knows almost all will get hooked and come back on their knees to beg for more. When will the Big 3 man up and do what has to be done to salvage the company? Close plants, dispose of 50-60% of the administrative payroll next pay period. Cut all pay until they see black again, including the union. Tell the union they have two choices, shared sacrifice, starting tomorrow, or death. Wonder which one they might choose?

If GM declares bankruptcy, who’d buy their cars so that they’d earn a profit? The confidence in these companies are currently very low and it’d be hard to turn that around quickly, even with a bailout.

With a bailout they’re so far behind, they have to catch up to foreign-made cars who’ve already streamlined their processes decades ago. They won’t be able to catch up unless time magically freezes, because the foreign car companies are still improving themselves right now!

I’m sorry for all the people who have worked there for 30 years. I wish I was able to stick with a company for that long instead of stressing out every couple of years to look for a job due to layoffs and (gasp) company bankruptcies.

If you lose your job, this means you will be learning other skills. You will be adapting to the environment, just like everyone else, just like most of the real estate people are doing. Sorry to all the retired folks. You should talk to those already retired who’ve lost 50% from their 401Ks.

And what makes you think they’re going to be keeping the jobs in America if they get a bailout? Be proactive, don’t be a victim.

I grew up in Detroit, all my family worked for GM for three generations, the democrats will never disappoint the UAW so I believe that bankruptcy and reorganization is the best course.

Let them and stupid inions die, go buncrupt and somebody will start all over.
We can’t pay for CEO’s mistakes. Let them to bailout their company by their own money.

The only way GM is going to avoid Bankruptcy is to rid of it’s archaic management & corporate culture. Then possibly merge with a successful car company like Honda or Toyota to build small, /Hybrid fuel efficient cars at a profit! They haven’t got it right for so long so go with those who know!

Listen to the majority of taxpayers when they don’t want “THEIR” money loaned to Detroit. Americans stop being weak, let the bankruptcy proceedings begin.

Let them fall, they have all ready done so. Not many people will buy an American car today or tomorrow. Loan or no loan, we all know how much trouble they are in. Who has faith in a falling car company. Not me..

I have been a car dealer for years, during which GM has not ever impressed me, I do believe that GM truly has stiffed their consumers-from the start, I have had many people bring brand new GM cars to me that have the same problems over and over again, My view, Though I would never tell my customers this, Is that GM cars are made only to survive their warranty period, after this their quality of the parts seem to fail one by one, till the consumer after years of problems, buys a used of another new car, I am in favor of Toyota, Honda,and other Japanese cars as well as German made cars

Someone has to oversee the infusion of money into the auto industry. The bankruptcy courts are in the best position to do that and protect the public’s interest in their investment. Otherwise they execs will just fritter the money away, just as they have in the past. I read that their operations outside the US are able to succeed. If they don’t want court oversight, then let them borrow from their counterparts in their holding companies.

GM must learn it created this problem by not operating within its means and should go bankrupt.I was a loyal customer and bought 5 new cars from GM and after getting shafted by them I will never buy another car from GM.

I don’t know if bankruptcy is best for GM and I would bet my measly paycheck that noone else can say for sure either.

I do believe one thing that everyone should push – Chrysler is privately owned by a group of very rich and powerful investors and they should not get one dime of help from the American government. These titans of business bought the company with their own money and they keep their books private as the law allows.

The Chrysler executives should be sent back to Detroit with a kick in the pants and some sound advice to invest their money more prudently next time.

How about they cut their ridiculous prices by at least 1/2 cause we all know they don’t make any vehicle worth more than $10K. Maybe they could reduce the inventory and put some money in the bank to help reduce their debt. In other words, they should take responsibility for getting themselves out of the financial they put themselves in just like all the taxpayers have to. We do not approve having to bail them out with our tax $$$ and still have to pay them outrageous prices for their autos. They, and I mean the fat cats and the overpaid union employees, need to suffer the consequences of their actions.

Chapter 11 then bail out.

Yes, Let they try on their own. Unite State is still a capitalistic country; If a business can not compete, it shall fail.(There is no such thing that too big to failure. All the banks and Big three in such bad situation, Government has some responsibities too. Government shall govern not giving money away.) GM, Ford, Crysler should learn this lesson–make the car that people want to buy.

In difficult times like these you need cut a little closer to the bone and the likes of GM, F and C need much sharper knives and several qualified butchers before not being classified as the fat cat’s of the industry.

I cannot believe the level of ignorance and small mindedness that permeates in our national media, and on capitol hill. All of this grandstanding and personal power-tripping over a LOAN, not a bailout, is undignified behavior for elected representatives of the people. No wonder Congressional favorable approval ratings are at all time lows 7 or 8 percent. The choice is simple. Do we want a depression, or do we want a manufacturing industry that supports the middle class way of life in America. Even a fifth grader could answer this one correctly.

There is a very easy solution here to all you idiots:
Go through with bankruptcy and force these lenders who recieved bailout funds to fund the bankruptcy. To squash the fear of buying a car from a company in bankruptcy all the government needs to do is guarantee it.

This may just be to logical for our ass backwards country to implement.

For those of you who say bankruptcy is not an option you are retarded. Let’s give away more money. The CEO’s are being paid $1 this year. How about they start by giving back some of the 20 Million they got last year while driving their companies into the ground. Does that make any sense?

I can ruin a company for 20 Million too!!!

gm needs to go into bankruptcy just like the other two to get rid of those uaw contracts. were the job bank guarantee you 95% of pay.They al so need to redo their extuctive pay. oh hell they just need to all start over.

In 1993 the Dutch truckmaker DAF went bankrupt to emerge after restructuring as DAF Trucks. DAF Trucks is alive and kicking ever since – though severely hit by the current crisis.
DAF went down because Plan A didn’t work. Plan A – drastic downsizing, read firing have the factory workers – was resisted and rejected by the unions. So came Plan B: restart after bankruptcy. Everybody was immediately fired, a few weeks later half of them were hired backed, and at lower wages. Clearly the unions got the worsed side of the deal, and equity and debtholders were wiped out.

So, in the automotive industry there is at least one experience with a succesful bankruptcy restructuring. Just don’t be afraid for it. The longer the board waits to file, the greater the chances they will be held personally liable for mismanagement in court.

PLEASE SAVE THE GM NOW!

I live in São Caetano do Sul, a small city near São Paulo, Brazil, this city besides has the biggest HDI of Brazil, has the bigger GM branch in Brazil, it is one of the most profitable GM’s factorys in the World and this factory has an half area of the Town area, if they bankruptcy, my town will bankruptcy together.

You need GM, my city needs GM, please American People, save GM.

The Big 3 is too arrogant to believe they must build a quality, maintainable, affordable car before people will buy it. Present cars and trucks are junk with pretty paint and nice sound systems. Thus, any bailout money is a waste and the American people should not have to pay for it.

Yes BK is the way to go for GM. I am surprised that GM didn’t see this happening a few years ago. Most companies have analysis, which also forecast sales. Why didn’t they see their sales going down, but did nothing to stop their expenses? They should have had layoffs a year or so ago. They also should have stopped their perks. Expenses should not exceed income. If Senior management didn’t see that then, why would they see it now? No Money to GM because they do not know how to manage it.

When I got in Financial trouble , If I Went to the Government & asked for $40 K They would have just Laughed at me. I had to file Chapter 13 and pay high Legal fees on my own to stay alive. When I Asked Ford Credit for any Help with this problem , They Laughed at me Also.
I think, LET THEM TRY ON THEIR OWN>

Bankruptcy is no solution. No one in their right mind would by a high-ticket item like a car from a company in bankruptcy. Bankruptcy would only serve to kill off the automoble maufacturing base of this country. The cost to taxpayers would be huge, way more than making them a loan to these companies that the government is going to get back with interest. Federal money to support this industry is a must.

If you want to punish someone, punish the people that made loans to consumers that could not pay them back and to the speculators that drove the price of oil to $146 per barrel when the true market driven value is probably somewhere around $75 per barrel. None of this would be happening without those two events.

In order to actually happen in time for there to be anything worth salvaging at all as well as to quickly & legally end all the entanglements of the unions – present & past – plus eliminate the executives, a full chapter 7 is the best way !

Any other alternative will not mandate the total purging of old ways that got the Detroit Three where they now are.

I write to express opposition to any taxpayer bailout of “Big Detroit” without a lot of strings attached; the first of which must be firing of the entire executive suite and most of the top-level senior man-agement. Why?

1. These executives are incompetent.

It is their mismanagement which has brought their companies to bankruptcy. They are not worth their $$$$multi-million salaries, bonuses, perks, platinum parachutes, luxury aircraft and whatever else there is. I am very confident that we can obtain people who can run these companies just as badly (hopefully much better!) for one heckuva lot less money. The first place to start looking will be lower down in the ranks, plus replacement top management from outside.

2. The linkages between Big Oil and the
automotive industry (“Big Detroit”) must be broken.

Let’s face it: Big Oil does not want the nation converted to electric vehicles which need very little gasoline, or better yet, no gas at all. Big Oil has sabotaged alternatives-to-gasoline and gasoline-efficient technologies for decades.

It is only due to our Internet of today that inventors can freely communicate with one another, not be murdered or picked off one-by-one by Big Oil, and so innovative concepts are instantly distributed world-wide.

Big Oil and “Big Detroit” don’t like electric cars because they’re too reliable. The Direct-Current electric motor has only one moving part instead of hundreds, and, if equipped with good-quality ball bear-ings, like pre-WWII motors, can last for decades. Also, this fuel-cell-hydrogen stuff is a lot of nonsense. Big Oil wants everybody to have to fuel up for hydrogen at high prices, at their service stations. And Big Detroit has always wanted cars to break down frequently and need lots of replacement parts; plus not last too long.

3. These companies need
to enter Chapter-11 bankruptcy.

Only a bankruptcy judge in the courts can quickly clean this mess out. The first thing he’s going to say is something like:

“This company is broke. It has no money left. If it is to emerge from bankruptcy as a viable restructured entity, I am ordering the following changes immediately.”

a) The stockholders are out; the stock is worthless. In exchange for a taxpayer bailout, the taxpayers will own the new company for an indefinite period of time.

b) The CEO and executive suite is fired. They will be escorted to the entrance. Their salaries and all benefits cease immediately. Their contracts are herewith declared void. Their luxury aircraft are to be sold as soon as possible for cash. If rented, these contracts are void and the aircraft are to be returned immediately to their respective owners. All employees involved with “serving or coddling” the executive suite are dismissed without notice or severance pay.

c) Current employees: All contracts with the UAW and other labor unions are null & void and terminated. Provided cash is available, one-half of current salaries and wages will continue to be paid for one month, during which time all employees may apply for re-employment with the taxpayer-owned reorganized company, on a case-by-case basis — at wages to be set by its management, in individual private agreements for 5 years; and relocation to another part of the nation at the employee’s expense may be required.

Pay for any employee not actually doing work (such as at “standby” in an idled plant) shall terminate immediately without further notice nor severance pay.

d) Retired former employees: All contracts, including retirement plans, pension plans and medical benefit plans with the UAW and other labor unions are null & void and terminated, because the company has no cash remaining with which to pay.

4. The taxpayers are to own the company.

If taxpayer’s funds are necessary to bail out these companies, then in return the taxpayers must own the company so that these funds are not wasted away. It is not going to stop at just $12-13 billion for General Motors. Some are saying this will become $30-50 billion or even much higher.

The present management cannot be left in place because under their direction the money will be dissipated away and routed to other countries, rather than have a company based in America and employing American workers. These executives of today have no loyalties to America; and as to American workers, the attitude seems to be: “Let Them Eat Cake.”.

At this very moment General Motors is building a new plant near St. Petersburg, Russia; reportedly to build SUV’s. This is not what we need in the United States — to put Americans back to work.

There must be a very careful examination of what our nation’s priorities need to be. I venture to suggest: we must end our dependency on Middle East oil, and I assert we can do this in less than five years. Then we won’t need their oil nor even care what happens in that unstable area of the world filled with religious lunatics. They’ve been fighting with each other for at least 5,000 years and that’s not going to change.

When Franklin D. Roosevelt was President, and World War II faced the country, Roosevelt said to General Motors and Ford: “You’re not going to build cars anymore. You’re going to build airplanes and tanks and guns and the things that we need for this war because we have a national crisis.” And so General Motors/Ford had to do what Roosevelt told them they had to do.

Today, Mr. President-Elect, you need to say to these companies: “Yes, we’re going to use this money to save these jobs. But we’re not going to build these gas guzzling vehicles any longer.”

We’re going to put the companies into some sort of receivership and we, the taxpayers (government,) are going to hold the control over these companies. They are to build hybrid cars. They are to build cars that use little or no gasoline, and plug in at home for overnight recharging. And they are to build mass transit.

There must be an urgent plan set in place to find other ways to transport ourselves besides using fossil fuels; we’re running out of time.

There must be a whole new management team at General Motors and Ford. The managements must be controlled and follow orders, just as it was under Roosevelt, in World War II.

The government has to step in and say,

“This is what you’re going to build. This is how it’s going to be built. Besides efficient high-mileage cars, we’re going to have a mass transit system in this country. We’re going to bring back light rail. And, instead of outsourcing everything to foreign nations: we’re going to employ not only the people that are currently employed, but a lot of the people who have lost their jobs around the country.”

We need a huge public works program. We need the infrastructure of General Motors. We need to restructure these auto companies so they become mass transit companies and companies that build cars that are hybrid or much more fuel-efficient and better for the environment. That’s what the country needs. That’s what the world needs.

We don’t need more badly-engineered, planned-obsolent garbage built by “Big Detroit,” of which Big Oil is the principal beneficiary, not the American people.

Aside from Congress issuing GM (essentially) “carte blanche,” which would be utterly insane, I see no viable alternative. However, the Wall Street “Hedgies” will own the company, regardless of any Congressional action…or any action(s) taken by GM.
Wall Street is NOT in the car business; they are in the MONEY business.

I’m quite certain Mr. Wagoner and “The General” do not understand what business they are in. They clearly demonstrate NO ability to design, build, and sell cars at a profit.

While no fan of Detroit, I don’t want to see GM (and Ford) go away. They comprise a key element of our (eroding) industrial base that I consider quite worthy of protection.

Handing the automobile business over to the Asians and the Europeans is probably not in America’s best self-interests. While a devoted Honda owner/enthusiast, I am quick to remind myself of the wonderful weaponry Detroit produced during WWII. And we might just need them to repeat that service, which is so vital to our national security.

But to preserve GM will take Draconian measures. I say, strip the company down to two divisions: Chevrolet and Cadillac. Everything else goes in the dumpster. This will help address their overcapacity and cost structure issues.

While I despise labor unions, forget blaming UAW for GM’s woes: GM management sat at the table and signed the collective bargaining agreements…without serious thought as to whether they could PAY for them, in the future. All UAW does is build the vehicles to “spec” provided. They don’t design and/or market the cars. And since GM’s vehicles are selling so poorly, that is an ENGINEERING problem and a MARKETING problem…NOT a Labor problem!

First step, however, is to clear out the 14th Floor of the General Motors Building. Congress (or someone) should install an oversight board to FIRE ALL THE TOP MANAGEMENT! FIRE THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS! FIRE everyone, right down to the secretaries and janitors. The MBAs (such as myself) and the CPAs, they need to GO! Replace them with men (and women) who LOVE automobiles! Install a top-level management (and BOD) with some grease under their fingernails, with oil and gasoline running through their veins!

Get them out from behind their desks, out of the endless staff meetings and conference calls…into the dealership showrooms selling brands they like to pretend don’t even exist!!!

Mr. Wagoner: Toyota, Honda, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, et al., they are not “fairy tales” your Mother read to you, as a little child. They, along with many other car companies, are now EATING YOU ALIVE!

You think GM has problems now? Just wait until China and India soon flood the American car market with their entry-level offerings. When gasoline returns to $4.00+ per gallon, they will be selling like hotcakes!

In the meantime, Mr. Wagoner, take that C11 filing. If Congress decides to bail GM, use the money WISELY. Myself, along with American TAXPAYERS, WE are picking up the tab for GM’s countless mistakes and foolishness!

Mr. Rick: YOU WON’T GET ANOTHER CHANCE!

Sorry to mention a competitor, but an article on BusinessWeek.com makes sense to me. Restructure GM into two companies — creating one company that survives and thrives while the second company is liquidated.

I hope Congress considers more than the two apparent options (a bailout and bankruptcy).

The best answer probably involves a hybrid approach (no pun intended).

Mike

The solution is not to sell their jets,it is not to pay the CEO $1 a year, the solution is to get the UAW to give up 20% of the current salaries and benefits- and I mean: right now. Forget that negotiations are sheduled for 2010. IF the UAW would do that I might be willing to contribute with my tax money to bail them out.

Bankruptcy might be the best way for GM, or any of the Big Three, to reorganize. They are saddled with legacy costs such as over compensated and poor productity union labor. Their dealer networks are too numerous ineffecient for the times. The management infrastucture has become too large, slow and isolated from the market.
Bankruptcy does not evaporate the hard assets, mere reassigns them. While this may mean the loss of many jobs, I would rather see the $25-50 B USD spent on shorterm unemployment and more importantly, worker education and training; the better role of government, not market subsidies. Giving it directly to the autotmakers will not solve the root cause of the problem and only delay the inevitable. Complete restructuring is needed.

I think untill the BIG 3 do away with unions, they will never be able to compete. That would help more than anything.

The steel industry in the U.S. suffered from the same ills that have crippled General Motors? arrogance, know-it-all-ism, insularity. The foreigners that wiped out the industry, which died piecemeal, company by company, are like GM’s competitors today — forward-looking and customer-oriented. Only the shock of a bankruptcy will ever change GM’ mindset.

The only way GM should be saved is through a pre-packaged bankruptcy. All vested parties need to come together and get a haircut. It’s the only way they will be able to get the UAW to concede enough to make GM a profitable company.

In the Big 3’s defense, Congress has been an enabler in the whole downfall. They passed what they thought would help the Big 3 in Section 179. This allows businesses to write off $25K in depreciation 1st year, if the vehicle has a GVWR of 6000lbs or more. This plays right into the obsession we have with SUV’s and Pickups. It was written this way to put an artificial tariff on foreign car companies because they weren’t competing in the SUV market. Many, many people purchased SUVs for their business because it was a tax savings, when they probably would’ve been fine with a passenger car. Has anyone pointed the finger back at Congress because they gave incentives to the big 3 to continue to focus on SUV’s, versus actually putting some weight behind trying to compete with the European/Japanese car makers?

After reading the article it is clear to me there are very serious issues with the Big 3.
1) They are too diversified and have too many products to offer, many times they are the same product with different tags on them (solsitce/sky, etc.)
2) Union contracts and union benefits are too costly and a severe burden to the profit load. I read somewhere it takes $2,000 – $3,000 of every care made to pay for retiree benefits. That is impossible to manage. Job banks need to be eliminated. If you are laid off collect unemployment like everyone else. Work for less or do not work. A living wage is required, but $72,800($35/hour)is excessive. Most college graduate managers with 5 – 8 years experience do not make money. Kill the defined guaranteed pensions and put 40(k)’s in place that provide an opportunity to match with company stock. Make the worker take an ownership in the company.
3)Reduce retiree benefits and make them pay for some of their health benefits from their pension distributions. Make workers work longer – no early retirement. Work until 67 or the age requirement, based on birthdate like everyone else in this country.
4)Reduce the number of auto choices available. sell those that are monst affordable and most often desired. The rest sell until inventory is gone, but do not make anymore of lagging styles/brands.
Take the brand that is most widely known (Chevy, Ford and Chrysler) and market specifically under these brands only.
5)Downsize the companies and expand hard into foreign markets. With lower worker costs, the cars should be more affordable overseas.

Do no let them fail, we need to have manufacturing in this country, but the manufacturing needs to be utilized at cost effective levels so the company’s can competer here and overseas with the competition.

We can not lose manufacturing in this country, what would have happened during WWII if we did not have a strong manufaturing base. We need to be able to utilize manufacturing zones for weapons, tanks, jet fighters, tanks, etc. Without the automaker, we are without hope.

Let them go bankrupt. Enough is enough. It seems like every few years GM is in the headlines for some reason and it always has to with the their poor management and earnings. Back in 2005 GM was on the verge of bankruptcy due to an annual pension cost of $48 billion dollars. When a company has that much in pension costs whereby 1 exisiting employee supports the pension of 5 reitred employees, it’s time to call it quits. Not to mention, you could not pay me enough money to ever be motivated to purchase a GM car.

I don,t think those genuses at GM even know what to do to turn the company back around, so I’ll tell them: 1) quit building cars using the lowest bidder to make parts 2)Bad design costs just as much as good design, so get rid of those dumb ass designers you’ve got and get someone that has some common sense 3) build a four cylander engine that is smooth and quiet 4)build cars that are smooth and quiet and that have lots of chrome.

I think either bankruptcy or 50 billion dollars from the government for GM. Their balance sheet is so bad, only drastic steps will save them. But, contrary to many, I think they are worth saving. The Chevrolet brand is an American icon and still produces quality vehicles. I dont want consumers to be limited in their choice of something so vital as the automobile to be limited to foreign producers, for both patriotic reasons and economic reasons.

Listen to me please! I America loses it’s Auto industry, we will be well on our way to being a 3rd world country. Should we buy all our cars from China? America needs MORE manufacturing jobs Not less! I drive a 2004 Mustang Convert, V6. It was rated one of the BEST quality cars of 2004. I have had it for 4 years and it has Never had 1 problem, it,s also speedy, sporty and it gets 25MPG. My room-mate has a 2005 Scion (made in Japan) and it has had LOTS of problems, even body parts falling off. One part fell off 4 times and he just gave up and left it off. BUY AMERICAN or we will be the next Poland or Somalia

Bankrupcty is not an option for the Big 3 Domestic Auto Comapany’s. No one wants bo make a large purchase like that of an automobile unless they feel their investment is safe. Buying an automobile is like a marriage and buying an airline ticket is like a one night stand. So forget those comparisons that the legislatures are making about “no problem with an auto bankruptcy”. Why would someone spend $30,000+++ with the uncertainty of a bankruptcy looming? AND PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not think for a minute they anyone wants a relationship with the Federal Government as the vehicle warranty guarentor. The Federal Government has already bankrupt the Country and shown us over and over that they do not have the intelligence or leadership to do anything meaningful or worthwhile.

A ll of the cars to day look the same ,they need to build a kick ass car to day as they did in the past,, some thing that makes you feel young even though you are 60 , how cool is that build some production hot rods . that every one can afford .. dont think about it just build it .. cars like the (GTO) and make the mustange big enough for big people to enjoy and not be cramped up . hell build it and see what happens.. ford was going to build the 49 ford , and they did not , had to see if the market would like it .. heck the market dont no what they want just build it and see were it goes ,,, luxuary is not nessararly , in the amenities , it can be in a certian look , are that paint stripe … some thing they are not a fread to burn rubber in … build some fun .. rock and pionnion sterring was fun .. go back to rear wheel drive ..so when you burn that rubber , hey l the little people need some fun too ( man Build some fun and excitement again build it if they buy fine and if they dont at least u tryed …

Can GM be saved? WoW! If the question was easy, we would not as readers have a chance to comment.

With all the challenges idendified over the last twenty four months, and if enough cash was in place, could you solve, the grand fathered labor contracts, could you take the culture of General Motors staff, suppliers, union leaders, goverments and come up with products that meet the needs of tomorrows buyers? I believe we have the answers. In my 26 years of business and look at by best and worst, history plays in big part. Most of the stake holders motives have little to do with innovation or happy customers. It has to do with “WHAT IS BEST FOR ME!” and in my experience the only way to change is to create a lot of pain for all stake holders.

For the record, “Wall street”,also can take some credit for the perforance or there lack of!. How many decisions are made to please Wall street. Running companies with a quarterly focus points to the state of our economy!

Having driven more than 15 brands of cars, GM makes the worst cars in my opinion.

Bankruptcy is the only way for GM to survive in the long run. It will allow GM to get rid of UAW and dealer contracts. This will allow GM to reduce its capacity to be in line with the demand, and concentrate the resources on product development.

Why don’t we (the Bankruptcy Judges) just hire the people running Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes, and BMW to take over GM and give them carte blanche to hire, fire, reorganize, shut down, eliminate and resolve the mess. The deal would be that they have full authority to start from scratch (which they have all done admirably well) with whatever products, people, and plants they want to keep. Keep the best and eliminate the rest. For all the people that have retired, they get shares in the new company to substitute for the funds GM can’t pay them after bankruptcy. As the retiree needs money, the retiree can sell shares back to the public and get cash. Everyone Wins!

I belive that GM should be allowed to sink into bankruptcy. If they are ever going to turn around they need to rid themselves of the hugh overhead they carry as compared, say Toyota.

Excuse me Fortune, why you guys sounds always want to GM die? I feel disgusting to read you guys’ comments about GM. If GM die, is it good for Detroit? Is it good for America? Absolutely not. Government is not saving a corporation, but also saving the people, the country.

Rick Wagoner takes $4450 an hour to do what, lose money at record rates?

Fire him. NOW. No severence. Confiscate his shares of stock for that matter. I could see this coming 3 years ago. Unlike Rick I would have avoided this day.

The CEO’s of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, and Subura combined earn less money then Wagoner takes. Unlike GM they still make a profit.

Yes let GM file BK.

Imagine using your proffits for R&D and building better products. The big 3 spend a fortune on advertisment, purse and sponsorship deals. Small business can’t afford such luxuries. The big 3 have to get back to basic’s. Build better cars and market share will return.The workers lose, bailout or not, their on the hook.

Yup, let the Big Three go through bankruptcy, and let the creditors cut off the fat. The Big Three have been making crappy, cheaply-built cars for way too long, and why they haven’t changed their business model is beyond comprehension. That they cling to the business plan that everyone changes their car every 5 years is irresponsible to both customers and their workers. This is in effect an acknowledgement that they build crap. Talk to any Japanese import owner, and the odds are extremely good that you’ll hear how their car lasted for 10 years or more! Is it any wonder why Toyota is doing so well nowadays?!

Let the Big Three die – lets support Tesla and all those new technology pioneers guys working in labs and garages here in America. They will lead the car industry into the future, and employ all the skilled American workers who will soon suffer at the hands of incompetent management at the Big Three.

Do we need 3 car companies and their excessive brands and bloated labor contracts? 1 car company and many car brands should go (buick, hummer, saab?) and the two remaining car companies should go into bankruptcy so they can renegotiate the labor contracts and close dealerships and plants. Congress should extend educational benefits and unemployment insurance to the auto workers, but no bailout to the companies.

Compare the Chevy Malibu Hybrid with the Toyota Camry at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/. And then compare the 1995 Honda Civic….the Malibu is sad….and this car (2009) is what is touted as progress…day late and a dollar short. So, point is, help the people, but let one of the Big 3 die in the market of competition.

The best option, in my opinion, is to forget the idea of a bailout, and use bankruptcy to put in place massive restructuring within the manufacturers. This includes, but is not limited to, reducing product lines to three (truck, cars, luxury), realigning the distribution and service system (e.g. a few big dealers who house new vehicles and small dealers who service vehicles and can order/pull from the large inventories, but carry little to none of their own.), get out from under ridiculous labor contracts, etc.

After they take these steps, I believe we as a country could provide that bailout money to the manufacturers in the form of debtor in possession loans. This way the manufacturers are assured of getting DIP funding, which they claim they cannot get currently.

It will hurt, it will be hard, but it will put them in a much better place to compete in the future. The old way of doing business has to die.

Insular, Self-absorbed.

Changing Culture is like turning a battleship.

We have tightened credit, which means people who really can not afford to purchase cars will no longer be allowed to. We have some 34,000,000 more cars on the road now than we have registered drivers. We have millions of people facing retirement, who will not be able to afford a new car in the future and fewer new drivers coming of age who will be able to afford a new car (stagnant wages is yet another issue). Switching to ‘green’ cars will not work as a new business strategy because the R&D cost and selling cost will be too high and therefore, unaffordable. All this limits the future market for American car sales, not even including continued loss of market share to Asian automakers. Predictions suggest that car sales will be stagnant for the next few years. I am definitely against bailouts of any kind and especially in the case of the auto makers. Full correction is very much needed to clean out the bloated auto makers, GM included. Yes, let them enter into back-ruptcy and hopefully come out the other side sleeker and with a valid, workable plan for return to profitability.

I believe that just about everybody has this wrong. Offer them help, BUT WITH THE CONDITION OF A BREAK UP. Any of the big 3 that want help, should accept being broke up into 2-4 different companies. Then give each of those companies 1B and access to loans for JOBS HERE.
At first glance this will not fly for many, BUT, the problem here is several fold.
1) management is doing all the wrong things.
2) Engineers no longer control these companies; Accountants do. As such, they are going to move the units to those that SELL TODAY.
3) The models really do not differ.
4) The tech between the companies are nearly the same (no innovation), but with enough differences to make higher costs to consumers and bigger profits to the car companies.
5) The big 3 are trying hard to move jobs to China. If so, then allow these 3 companies to move overseas and fund other companies.

In doing this break up, the feds NEED to fund Tesla Motors and several other zero emission car companies esp. those that building HERE. If they are building in China or Mexico, then let China or Mexico respectively, fund them.

Also, a re-negotiation of the union jobs MUST happen.

GM needs restructuring of its total cost base and will never get the union’s to proactively sign-up so bankruptcy is one way to do it or they never will be able to compete long-term. Additionally, GM needs a total change and reduction of senior managment, and a sizable reduction in total brands they build and market to about 5 at the most.

GM has lost 80 billion dollars in the last 4 years. As painful as it will be, bankruptcy is the only choice. A bailout is simply throwing good money away, when GM has not shown that they have a plan or the ability to succeed.

Absolutely, bankruptcy is in order. The same thing happened to Sears and Kmart so there is no reason to think the big 3 are going anywhere. In free markets, companies that can’t compete go out of business and new companies fill the gap. These unionized companies cannot compete locally nor globally. Toyota put their truck plant in Texas so they have access to cheap labor. It is not rocket science.

The Article ignores what really killed GM, which is years of UAW union legacy costs. If bankruptcy resulted in GM finally getting free of the unions like UAW, then the american automotive industry might finally have a chance.

This is a good opportunity to set a positive example and let the future of GM take it’s course based on the company’s management decisions. No tax payer money should ever be used to bail out businesses.
They will learn and get it right eventually, otherwise we will drive BMWs, Hondas,…

Obviously they should have taken a more subtle method of transportation to DC. Second, Chysler rebound after bankrupty.

Do NOT bail them out. Let the market take them into bankruptcy and they will likely ditch the heavy burden of the unions and come to their senses on other fronts. $75 an hour is unsustainable as is the $5,000 a vehicle load in future health care costs.

GM, Ford, and Chrysler all need to restructure into new entities. Each need a brand soley designated for the future without any expectation of maintaining any of the status quo’s empire. The high profit, gas burners need to be replaced with tommorrows vehicles – at significant risk, which means real businessmen need to be at the helm – not the one’s Harvard and Yale pump out today, are there ay real industry captains left?

Unions, they need to go the way of the dinosaur – they breed poor quality and bad labor under the guise of making the workplace fair – like politics, telling a worker you are not doing your job, won’t get you more power.

Banlruptcy will at least allow these companies to attempt to create better – stronger versions, by casting off the Unions and contracts which should have never been offered. Health care does not need to be overhauled people – the average American needs an overhaul – it can be summed up in one three letter word FAT.

Cut 60 products to 30 and replace 10 of these over the next 10 years, kill the jets, get rid of all management that doesn’t believe BIG change is needed …… cut off half of the dealerships ….. implode the towers if you can’t sell them quickly, use this for marketing your change of ways, move to a single story energy efficient building – long but with mass electronic people transit …….build at least one DYI self (final) assembly using pin together major components in easy to ship packages, do this using a three wheeled vehicle design to avoid the burden of four wheel government requirements, build this in mass production in one reused facility, sell this product direct on-line with a credit card and power it with a small (30-40 HP) very efficient gas engine, use flat sheet polycarb product off current production lines – no stamped products just bend to curve – integrate roll cages and use cross chest safety belts without airbags integrate the best low cost electronics by others – use belt variable (snow machine) drive – no gears. $5K max. pricing with $1500 margin – two person……. and get it done NOW and advertise durability and 100 MPG …… let the user buy a variety of surface finishes to make it custom ….. 4 hour max self-assembly time ….. sell it worldwide and to countries that don’t permit pre-assembled product importing…. tell the unions to meet the Indiana Honda hourly income and benefit deal or you will work with the government to do a pre-planned Chapter 11 to kill them off ….. retain sales confidence with the following government deal: tell the congress this is your plan, tell them you don’t need a part of $25B but $125B on your own to do this, tell them you will need this much to give confidence to the public to buy your US made car products …. take the money in $25B chunks based on progress toward these goals. Be specific on sales ramped growth after a BIG loss and a huge drop in production (twice to three times current estimates …. dump of over half of the company assets and OH. Come in showing artistic and CAD drawings of future products… describe SPECIFICALLY why the country will be better off to save your company in this way … YOU WILL BE BETTER THAN ANYONE at meeting customer desires and the world’s need for efficiency NOW and in the future. BE CREATIVE AND AGGRESSIVE FOR ONCE you blind old thinking business leaders with NO IMAGINATION! Take a risk or you and your company (and maybe this country) are toast!

General Motors really needs to be restructured. This is a company that continues to be follower and not a leader. They have too many products, too many brands, too many dealers, and too many failures to make exception. Toyota has beat them handily with less of all of those, and continues to show profitable leadership in both business sense and innovation. I’m not sure the timing could be any worse, so I understand why there is a desire for the bailout, but this company needs more than a little readjustment.

Bankruptcy will mean liquidation. Nobody would buy a car from a bankrupt company when you can have a choice of Toyotas, Nissan, BMW’s and so many others.
The Big 3 needs to present a plan that will take them out of their misery and back to profitability. Congress should approve a bridge loan for that effect.
Congressmen who represent states that already have foreign car manufacturing facilities should abstain to vote (and even discuss) on this issue.

Bankruptcy is the only fair way out. Taking responsibility for mistakes has always been part of the maturization process. GM out of pure greed (selling all the SUV’s they could due to high profit margins)and lack of sound business planning/priorities certainly made its share of mistakes – time for payback. Having the tax payers bail out this company is only delaying the inevitable. With its labor costs out of line, its product line not reflective of what is needed to be competitive, and a management hierarchy that refused to smell the roses, this outfit can simply not survive with just an infusion of money.

I have two thoughts to share: (1) convert GM to an employee-owned company; (2) split GM into separate companies, perhaps by badges and/or by operation function. _In Search Of Excellence_ says that a company (or division) with more than 500 employees is too large to be market-nimble. Centralization of functions usually saves money; centralization of management usually doesn’t. Any Federal bailout should go to employee loans to buy their company — that guarantees change.

I agree with most of the other comments listed on bankruptcy. Have the “Big Three” file for chapter 11 as soon as possible. Then have the USA provide the needed money for loans for the new and improved companies. We need manufacturing jobs in the USA. But after seeing that bumbling showing in front of Congress the other day, handing them money now would be a waste of time and energy. Go to Chapter 11 soonest, do not worry about “no one will buy cars from a bankrupt company” no one is buying cars now anyway from anyone. This is the perfect time. Do it and get it over with.

By all means, let GM go. Then the bankers will have bigger losses so we can inject more capital into them. Their gratitude will surely engender a cascade of wealth down upon the rest of us. We’ll have trillions to spare for the bankers in the federal budget since we’re pulling out of Iraq although some resources will be required to patrol the anarchist savanna that will be Detroit.

bankruptcy is not an option. would you really invest $25000+ in a car from a bankrupt company. no body will buy from them and they will eventually go out of business. the problem with the big three is their union, but in 2010 much of their costs will be cut due to their new contract. the 25 billion dollar loan should keep the big three alive until 2010, and they have excellent cars like the cruze, new fusion, volt that will be available by 2010. it’s ridicules that our goverment gave citi bank 307 billion and they don’t want to give the big three 25 billion, didn’t citi bank screw up with sub prime mortgage, why is it the taxpayer responsibilities to help out citi but not gm , remember citi got 300 billion and big three need 25 billion. Obama wants to spend 200-700 billion to create 2.5 million jobs, but he doesn’t want to spend 25 billion to save 3 million jobs.
3 million jobs will be lost, and a lot more would lose there retirement benefits.j
1.those 3 million people, would not find jobs easily in this economy which means they will all apply for unemployment benefits, this will cost the goverment a lot more than 25 billion dollars.
2.those 3 million people will list their homes for sale which will drive home prices down even more.
3.the short supply of cars will eliminate incetnives which will drive car prices way up.
4. stock market will go down, which means your 401k will be worth less
5. if you have used american car it will be worth nothing and good luck finding a part for it once something goes wrong with
6.we will definatly have more import cars which means less new jobs in america
really think about it, 25 billion dollars can save many billion of dollars in caused losses due to the bg three collapse

GM and the other auto makers are all victim to the ways of the AUTO UNIONS who time past about 3 decades ago. US Steel in the 80’s was so out of the steel business that they should have called themselves US REALTY. They diversified and GM didnt follow.

The Unions with their HUGE benefit plans, retirees making a fortune and then their sick, vacation and disability packages if POSTED would sink their options for a bail out plan.
The only logical option at this point is bankruptcy – which then has guidelines for funds, personnel, payments and future organizational management — something smart without politicans in the back room playing LETS MAKE A DEAL.

Its too bad that everyone had to be hurt by them — and they talk about the little guy being hurt — but didnt it start with their THUGS in the unions getting greedy years ago — and to play it smart then — the unions got corporate management to agree. Everyone was happy.

But today — we as tax-payers are paying for that greed and comfort. And our grandchildren will be paying for it too for a long time to come.

With all the bailouts — if Congress had taken the $700 billion and divided it among the US Population then everyone one in America would have received $3,5 million dollars. After taxes — which then would make the government solvent — everyone could pay off their homes, cars and credit cards – thereby making the credit crunch — a thing of the past — but why wasnt this discussed? Because it didnt make the govt happy to NOT have to create an entirely new wing of the govt with all those juicy jobs to then put their buddies in.

Its a sad day when it pays to give it all away — but then why not give it all to us?

I think if GM truly wants to save themselves, the first thing they should do is eleminate The 50k 19 M.P.G. Suburban/Tahoe. I love GM products, but they dug their own grave. Too irresponsible with their money. I hate to see GM go, but Bankruptcy may be a lesson in “tough love”.

GM has been making mediocre cars for so long in the face of hungry competitors that I say, Goodbye GM.

I think bankruptcy would be best for the company but regardless which path is taken the employees will sufer the most. That being said GM should accept its fate, cut its product offerings down to a reasonable 12 models and start over. Remember this is the company that systematically dismantled electric public transportation in this country to sell buses. The company has never done what is best for the country it is about time it starts to answer for its sins

If GM files chapter 11 to restructure all of their current contracts come up for negotiations. This means not only labor contracts but supplier contracts and dealerships as well. With some prices falling GM could come out ahead.
There main concern is no one wanting to buy a car from a bankrupt automaker but many warranties for other products are through third parties, so why can’t GM have a third party guarantee all warranties while they restructure?
Chapter 11 restructuring seems to be the best solution for everyone, GM, suppliers, and America, but GM is too proud to have the stigma of filing. But it is just a matter of time when they can make a bond payment.

The problem with bankruptcy is there is no one to finance it. Wall Street blew up the financial markets so bankruptcy is not even a real option. So they go to liquidation and dump the pension obligations on the Government and put a couple of million people out of work. The 25 billion dollar loan then becomes 150 billion in unemployment, worker retraining and long term debt. The United States loses the ability to engineer and mass produce highly technical products. News for everyone those Japanese and German cars that are assembled here but created in their home countries by their engineers. It is not in our coutries interest to give that up.

The autocompanies are favorite whipping boys and easy targets. The mistake they made was not taking on the Union earlier when everyone was buying their SUVs. They made SUVs because the margins were bigger and they could cover the legacy costs. It wasn’t because they don’t know how to make small cars. They make plenty in other coutries and do quite well.

People are delusional if they think there is fair trade. The competition that the Autos struggle against is subsidized by their home governments from government paid health care and pensions to arrangements with banks and suppliers for low cost loans and zero cost loans. If you think the wages for the union free plants will stay the same if the autos go down just watch how fast they get rolled backed or the plants shipped to Mexico or China.

for gm to survive it has to break the strangle hold the union has on them. if these employes are not cooperative, then file bankruptcy & do away with the union. pay your employees a descent wage & pay half their insurance, do the 85 & out. do something like pay retirement & health care from employee profit sharing.drop any product line that doesn’t show promise. build these cars as good as the japanese vehicles. employees need to show their pride in these vehicles. the auto makers need to remember these employees are NOT college grads, they are production line workers,& should not be paid as college grads. you need them ,& they need you. right now they hold all the cards,& the card house is falling.this is only a start, you may not want to hear my plan for the white collars, & college grads.

the car companies did it to themselves by agreeing to the uaw contracts that are outrageous in nature. Any union that wants these kind of perks for their workers deserve to lose their jobs. No other company allows these kind of union perks. They deserve to go out of business!! Making 75.00 an hour including benifits is absurb. Also paying workers at full pay when they are not working is ridiculous!!

GM has too many obligations. We have a process for this called Chap 11 (not liquidation in chap 7). many auto workers now work at toyota and honda plants in the US, so we can dispense with silly arguments about losing workers. It is also simply no reason to believe that $25-100B before file will help GM. Let GM file, restructure, THEN the US invest in a slimmer GM.

I read most of the comments regarding the question of letting GM hit the skids and go bankrupt. Most people seem to have a big grudge against the US car makers and thus feel that the time to let them sink is now. After all the story goes is that they deserve it, and the UAW too, let’s not forget their part in this tragedy! Well I am sorry but the joke will be on all of us. We are all in the boat too! You see autos form a huge part of the economy. If they go down lots and lots of jobs that are not in the car biz directly will disappear. And given the economy today there is NOTHING to replace them! So I must have missed the concern for the economy but that needs to be addressed. All of the jobs at risk and they are considerable may make the idea of bankruptcy really, really ugly. Good luck to Obama and his brilliant Democratic Congress, any way you slice the solution, it will make history, for better or worse.

BK – not a chance of surviving. With “just in time” inventory systems, a supply chain of thousands of suppliers, the failure of a few can stop the assembly line for a long time. How can a BK court deal with the complexity of this this network in a timely fashion to keep production going? Is the government going to be the “debtor-in-possession” financier for the whole supply chain? It’s one thing if the rest of the economy were booming; but if this became a knock out punch to a weak economy, it will be a huge mistake, And folks think the Lehman debacle was a bad decision.

The American Way (at least what we ordinary people are used to but obviously not Wall Street, CEOs and the such), is that if you are incompetent you have to go. As much as GM executives like to blame their commitment to the Unions as the main cause of their trouble, the reality is that the cars they build and design and uninspired, mediocre quality and there is no progressive vision in that company. While most companies were preparing for the time of scarce oil, improving economy and design, GM was spending millions, not in research and development, but in lobbying Washington to keep things the same, protect their behinds against more progressive competitors. As hard as it may seem, GM is a failed company and needs to go or to revamp from end to end.

If it were simply one or two auto-makers going under, the mantra of ‘bad management’ might hold sway with me. However, when one considers the fate of the big three taken in the context of the ship-building, steel, heavy equipment industries and the like (the list goes on) as well as the preceding similar circumstances of the British heavy industry, it becomes clear that labor is at the root of the problem. Unfortunately, no one has the spine to take on the UAW therefore even bancruptcy will only forestall the eventual demise of this industry. The errant belief that UAW labor is entitled to greater compensation (on the order of 3,4 even 10 times that similarly skilled competitive labor) that goes unchallenged intellectually in a supposedly market economy is what will kill this and any other industry that rises to replace it. Bankruptcy will simply leave innocent debtors and remaining shareholders holding the bag. It was our labor-sided laws and public policies that have torpedoed industry in America. Fix that, make labor compete on the relative merits of the skills and work ethic brought to the factory, and the big three will compete and win globally. GM’s very successful overseas concerns plainly support this.

Unfortunately, for GM it is the adage too little too late. GM made lousy cars for two decades and didn’t suffer for it because they do make great trucks and SUVS which really are trucks with an enclosed bed. Now GM has made large strides to make cuts with the UAW that will greatly benefit GM from 2010 on. GM now makes several cars that are better quality than the foreign makes, but do to the bad taste many have in their mouth from poor cars of the ’80s and ’90s many won’t even consider a GM car. I actually sold my 7 year old Toyota in 2007 and bought a 2007 Saturn Aura. After a year of research and test driving every brand the Aura was much better then the Camry, Accord, and Altima on price, quality, power, looks, and comparable in MPG. But I realize I am the exception to the rule and for every one person like me who is open-minded and will explore options for the best product, at least a dozen others will only test drive a Camry and Accord and will not spend 2 seconds looking at the Aura. Honestly, if 5 years ago you told me I’d buy a GM I would have laughed, but it shows that the American companies are changing. Unfortunately, is it too little too late?

I make an effort to NOT buy GM products due to bad purchases over the years. They are hurting because people like me are tired of buying junk from them. Now, the government wants to take MY tax money to keep them in business. What a crock.

After the first oil crisis in the 1970’s, I thought GM would take the gloves off and rise to the occasion. They didn’t. Since then I’ve noticed that as long as there is cheap oil, GM (along with Ford and Chrysler), seem to do well. But when oil get’s expensive and fuel economy is at a premium, these companies struggle.
In 1980, NBC News did a ‘White Paper’ study and produced a video called; “If Japan Can… Why Can’t We?” I remember seeing it on TV and was frustrated knowing that Japan was building better automobiles. What happened? Why couldn’t the United States lead by setting better examples when it comes to fuel mileage?
After watching the DVD “Who Killed the Electric Car?”, I’d like to know what was fact and what was fiction. I’m curious as to why GM didn’t respond to all the petitions that were signed from EV-1 owners wanting to purchase their leased EV-1’s. Was GM originally trying to prove that nobody would purchase an all-electric vehicle and when this backfired, demand for the EV-1 started to grow. GM went ahead and killed it anyway, despite the technological improvements to the battery. Why does GM claim that there wasn’t any public support for the project, when it seems the opposite was true, despite limiting the funding of the EV-1’s public relations?
Since the first energy crisis, I wanted to hear GM management set far-reaching goals in bullet-style statements. Things like 40 to 50 mpg automobiles by 2012, expanding the VOLT program to other divisions and focus more on “green” technology. Something with vision that Americans could hang their hats on. However, that hasn’t happened. Instead, a paradigm shift has occurred in the automotive industry starting back in the 1970’s and American hasn’t adapted. The effects are long reaching and an end of an era is finally here.
I don’t know what the right answer will be. I do know that after 35 years of waiting, spending more money without a plan would be reckless. I believe there needs to be a complete restructuring of the organization from the ground-up. I believe GM needs to consolidate down to only three divisions: Chevrolet, GMC, and Cadillac. Chevrolet would offer entry-to-mid level, Cadillac would offer mid-to-the-luxury level, and GMC would be GM’s truck division. Corvette would stay with the Chevrolet brand. They also need to have an aggressive R&D department for developing energy efficient automobiles and trucks we’ll need in the future and be competitive with the Asian and European markets.
I’m afraid the only way that will happen is to let GM fail and have them file for a Chapter 11 reorganization.

Bankrupcy is the best thing to help GM. This would giv GM the opportunity to provide the needed leverage to deal with a union that is blind and refuses to face realaty. I t would also show the management that they need to get their mind set on making the company productive and away from how to keep the bottom line high so that nothing intereferes with the big bonuses.

GMhas a closed mind on what it takes to be competive in the world market that we are facing. As an exxample, why did GM cease all reasearch on electric carsan not see the energy problems facing us? It is simple , the competion saw the hand writing on the wall but expensive research eats into the bottom lineand you have no vision by management to forsee the future.

Before we lend money to Gm they need to get the competitive.

GM has along with the UAW taken advantage of the American consumer for far to long. No longer will I sacrifice afforability and quality at the expense of being patriotic. I will never buy another American car until Unions are dead and gone.

All 3 big car companys should go bankrupt, they should also disband the UAW as this has been the biggest problem.To the workers well you enjoyed all those years of being over paid for what you do and of course you just wanted more and more, well now it time to pay the piper.Maybe your union will give you money LOL

If GM could reorganize under bankruptcy, that would be great. They need to eliminate Buick and Pontiac. Maybe the feds could help them buyout their dealers. They need to move the new union contract to 2009, maybe the feds could help to bring that about too. Rick Waggoner needs to have his salary reduced to about 1 million and all the other execs need to have their salaries reduced to similar levels.

this a overwhelming question: to or not to be ? this time I leave it to the wise, to answer it. as for me , I’m chilled to the bone. will a 2.000.000 people be left behind ? workers, retirees, and suppliers, and dealers, and every single American that ever worked to GM’s fame and glory ? it’s like burning the Star Spangled Banner…
Fred, LA, CA

The Detroit three are going to have to reduce their legacy costs to get a fairly competitive position. No time for a Blame Game now.

What General Motors, and the other automakers, need is a hard dose of reality. Airlines and other manufactures have successfully reorganized under bankruptcy rules and emerged stronger companies. If General Motors and their unions feel that they can not successfully emerge a stronger company then, perhaps, they are to weak to survive in today’s global economy and not prolong their demise and waste taxpayer dollars.

One of the big arguments against reorganizing through a bankruptcy filing is that the financing is not available. That may be true but that is where the Treasury and Congress should focus their attention. Let GM file for bankruptcy and then if the reorganizing financing does not materialize the Treasury can provide debtor in possession financing ensuring that the taxpayers get repaid first. If the company cannot successfully reorganize and emerge from bankruptcy then we would not have wasted two $25 billion bailouts on them.

Here is my take on the Auto bail out. Instead of just handing out billions of dollars to the Auto industry. Let the big 3 fill for Bankcruptcy, they will need the secured line of credit and loans to guarantee they will survive it but the condition from the goverment to faciliate the secured loans will be a very comprehensive restructuring programs for fuel efficient cars along with competitive prices for their new models; Re-negotiate their obligations to their Unions, which REALITY check people, did assist to drive these companies to their ruins, plus bad business management from the big 3 of course. The goverment can assist to assemble a competitive compensation like Toyota for the Auto industry workers of the big 3, limit all Auto Exec compensation to none and to take a stake on the profits when the Big 3 complete their turn arounds. We needs the job, we need these companies and we need to continue the tradition of American excellence in our domestic products to increase the appeal for US autos once again…

Seriously, those of you who want to bailout US automakers don’t need the government and the money of those of us who oppose it to do so. Just take your personal savings and use it to bailout US automakers. If you are not willing to do it with your own money, then don’t demand that it be done with other people’s money. Besides, the government doesn’t have the money; there is a giant deficit and a giant debt.

The only way GM can survive is to file bankruptcy. The UAW has caused the downfall of the big three with bloated benefit packages, and the only way to beat the UAW is through bankruptcy. A bail out of the auto industry would be a waste of tax payers money. While the unions may have served a purpose at the turn of the century, their usefullness has ended.

As much as I still like the idea of an American car, to bail them out now in their current form seems imprudent.

I had always driven an American (Ford)car up until my last vehicle purchase in 1996. That was when my wife an I bought a Volvo wagon. This is the old Volvo, when they were built in Sweden under the old company: great car, still running after 12 years.

And that is the problem with the American companies. I always seemed to pay dearly in money and patience to keep them running. I feel as if I had been subsidizing them for years.

Oh, and the treatment from the dealerships, that was a real rotten bunch of apples.

They have had plenty of time to learn from the good car manufacturers, but they haven’t. So maybe it is time for them to innovate on their own (change managment, merge, start from scratch) or fade away.

I am from one of the “less affected” areas of the country regarding Unemployment and Financial Ruin.

I can say honestly that if any one of the Big Three go under; un-employment will not stop until it reaches or surpasses 30% – no joking.

How many of you are willing to write off your debts caused by the trickle down affect of the bankruptcy??

Just Sept. there were all these “let ‘em burn, let ‘em go out of business, to hell with my 401-K, etc” Where are those brave souls today after Leaman?

To get a feel for 30% unemployment, three people get in a cirlce, play one round of Rock, Paper, Scissors, then odd man out take the rest of the week off with any pay – enjoy your your naive perspect pay check free.

No bailout for the big 3. Let them go bankrupt so the crooked UAW will go under as well. The UAW like most unions have detroyed business in this country. We need to take lessons fron Honda and Toyota.

I do not believe the U.S. auto industry should recieve a bailout from the government. I too, am a auto worker, and if the us auto industry was to close up all of the plants in the U.S. and move completely overseas, then so let it be. We will still have auto plants in the U.S., and will be built withmuch better, smarter technology and engineering than the U.S. can offer. For many years the Consumer Report has told you that anything built, designed and engineered in the U.S. is of much inferior quality and dependability. Many will argue that, “remember in WWII, how GM ford and chrysler converted all their plants over to build tanks, trucks, planes and jeeps to support the war”, like it was their patriotic duty. They made money from it, just like everyone else. If it had not been from stealing the technology and designs from the Japanese and Germans, their planes would have never made it off the ground, and their tanks and trucks would be left sitting to rust in the fields. Should it come to another “real war”, Toyota, Honda and others could convert over to build the tanks, trucks, machinery with much higher quality and technology and would be faster, lighter, and more economical than any the United States engineering could offer. General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler have been around far too long. It is about time that they step down, move out and let the New Kids take over.

It is a long shot that GM could survive bankruptcy, unless the government was involved anyway, to guarantee loans and credit for operating cash flow. The credit markets are still far too insecure to lend to a company that is already a credit risk. The government loans will help the Detroit 3 through this very rough time, which our “free wheeling capitalist system” brought on us all. The financial industry deserves far more criticism than automotive in my opinion. The loans and debt securities they engineered went way beyond the bounds of common sense. Why? Because the money was available to loan out. Because there were high returns promised on instruments whose risks were grossly underestimated.
The average auto worker makes around $80,000 in a “good” average year. Highly experienced engineers and managers in the mid to upper levels can make 90-110,000. These jobs are challenging, rewarding and support science and manufacturing in the USA to a very high degree. How much do lawyers, medical professionals and financial managers make? Why is our nation intent on allowing it’s manufacturing base to be sent overseas, along with so many necessary, skilled, good paying jobs? We need to re-evaluate our National business models and priorities. Smart nations like Japan, Europe, China see the need for government to play an active role in industrial policy, and to work with important corporate players to help design the future. Of course, industry has to accept this too, and more cooperative ways of relating need to be encouraged in our competition crazed nation.
Many people criticize GM products with a broad brush when I doubt they have really looked at the vehicles. They are better than they have ever been. GM is a full line manufacturer, and GM has favored the high end vehicles including trucks and SUVs because of their cost structure. Recent agreements with the UAW are bringing those costs in line, but yes more needs to be done. Smaller vehicles are now increasing in quality and are more competitive. To continue this process the domestic industry needs all of our support now. It should not be thrown away based on elitism, uneducated opinions, and falsely based envy of excessive wages and benefits. Remember that US industries’ competitors have the benefit of national health insurance also.

I drive a Cadillac CTS. It is a fine car, and gets about 22mpg. GM almost refused to build it, and the design was rejected because it was not conformed with GM style. Unfortunately, GM does not build cars that people want to buy. They think that good mileage cars must be small and cheap, and cheaply built. No, they need to build all their cars to get good mileage, and design them so that they will have good engineering and good quality. Some can be smaller, some larger. But, SUVs, Hummers, and such are not what the public wants or needs. GM executives do not understand this. They are incapable of downsizing and redesigning. Even the Volt is poorly conceived, and GM has nothing in the pipeline that people want. The guy who will succeed Wagoner is a finance person who knows nothing about cars. They haven’t a clue. Yes, maybe they should just hire the first 10 people in the Tokyo telephone directory and they would have better luck. Fire ALL of the executives, eliminate idiocies like the job bank, and put in people who know cars.

As painful as it sounds, bankruptcy is the least disruptive in the long run because the healing can begin more quickly. Generous Motors cannot hope to compete in the world market with its enormous disadvantage in labor costs. Labor unions need to begin looking at the larger picture and save sustainable jobs, not jobs that exist only in their imagination.

As I do not believe that it is the role of the taxpayer or the Federal Government to support failing business entities, especially those that have behaved so irresponsibly in their policies and business practices, then I believe that GM (and others) must face bankruptcy if they cannot make it on their own. In my opinion, bankruptcy would allow GM to:

1.) Reorganize and shed UAW contracts that have burdened the company for decades (especially retiree health benefits).
2.) Shutter underperforming brands that return little to the shareholder and are not embraced by consumers (I.e. Buick).
3.) Re-align their brand portfolio to Chevrolet (passenger cars and light trucks), GMC (medium, and heavy truck), and Cadillac (luxury vehicles). Sorry Buick, Pontiac, Saturn, etc.
4.) Divest themselves of “import brands” such as Saab, which have only taken tremendous cash to support and sell them to other entities in much the same way that Ford has done with Jaguar, Aston, etc.
5.) Close plants and facilities that are not needed, while reconfiguing the remaining plants to be more flexible in what they build while recucing the time to re-tool in order to support demands of the market.
6.) Change in management. These guys have worked hard, but it is not enough.
7.) Improved supplier programs that would allow them to consolidate their suppliers based on the ability to share more common parts across the entire platform on a global basis.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg, as there are more problems than any one person or assembled group of people can count. At the end of the day, there may not be anything that can be done to remedy the problem, and I believe Chrysler is in far worse condition. However, until an effort is made to truly change the culture of these organizations and align the business with what the market demands, there should not be a though of providing funding for an organization that has not done all that it can do to fix its own problems before trying to “pass the buck”.

I toured one of the other auto makers’ plants in the late ’70s, when they were still making their own steel. This year I took another factory tour (same auto maker) and was impressed with the brand new building with eco friendly roof, parking area, landscape and roboticized assembly line (most of these changes were government mandates, not choice), but it occurred to me that they are still making the same car. GM is in the same boat and a bankruptcy to “enable it to regain some fraction of its former glory” is still making the same car. Wake up! The world has changed in 30+ years and their products need to change as well as their way of doing business.

I don’t know of anyone that wouldbuy a car from a bankrupt automaker. The current economy can not afford to lose any jobs let alone a big part of our auto industry. The idea that the executives of the Big 3 should have flown commercial air to Washington is BULL. They are required to fly Private for security reasons.

GM, Ford & Chrysler must be saved. If we as a nation can stomach spending hundreds of billion to save the financial and banking industries, we can certainly spend a couple of dozen billion to save the auto industry.

I’m not in the Auto industry, I’m just a consumer and IT worker who has seen my industry outsourced and are now almost totally dependent on foreign labor(contractors).

Have you ever looked for “Tell us what you think” link on the GM Web site? It doesn’t exist! GM just doesn’t want to listen! If it listens, people would have asked “Rick, what were you thinking when you introduced the Hummer?”, “Why were a sleep at the wheel when Toyota was tooling up to introduce the hybrids, in the early 1990s?” and “If you feel burdened by punishing employee health care costs, why didn’t you join the push for a universal health plan?”

Rick, growing up in India, I very fondly remember my infatuation with Chevy Fleetwood and Buick Eight sedans. I came to the US< went to college and bought a Vega – and lost all my savings whne it went bust in two years!

WHen I get honest answers for my questions, I will sell my Prius and biuy a Malibu! My e-mail, jramray@gmail.com

GM has it’s share of problems that need to be dealt with.

The quick and easy method of getting every’s attention is to file. That will signal it is not a cry of “wolf.”

The better solution is for GM to get the LOAN from the Gov’t to allow them time to deal with the problems in a fashion other than nuclear – which will also kill a much larger number of small businesses than the politicians will acknowledge on the front end.

Understand that the Big Three went to ask for a loan – NOT a BAILOUT like Wall Street.

Yes GM can be saved by itself. If I were a discussion maker in GM I would take a handful of my top people lock ourselves up some were and restructure for the future. Redefine in VERY clear terms how you will leed into the future and not follow. One of the wheels have fallen off of your wagon get off your butts and put it back on, do not wait or expect some one else to do it for you. As far as going with my hat in my hand for a bail out NEVER, I would not give anyone the satisfaction. I have all that I need just have to put it together.

Bankruptcy for any of the auto makers only means that the american can and manufacturing business will now go to overseas companies like Toyota, Honda, Hyundia, etc. Manufacturing bankruptcy and service company bankruptcy are two totally different situations. A person buying something from a service company only needs that company to stay in business until that purchased service is completed. For an airline ticket that is a couple of weeks or a couple of months. In manufacturing you want your purchased product to be supported and desired by others for the useful life of that product. For a car or truck that is years.

Would you buy financial products from a bankrupt brokerage even if you knew your investment was SIPC or FIDC insured?? Probably not. Would you buy a computer or a TV brand from a manufacturer that is in bankruptcy?? Probably not. Would you buy a new design state of the art electric car from a bankrupt car company if they might not be around next year to keep that new technology working properly?? Probably not.

How could a bankrupt car company generate the quantity of sales to compete with a non-bankrupt car company if customers did not buy their product at a high enough rate to keep them in business?? It would only be a matter of time before they went under. It would not be due to lack of new or good products but lack of customer confidence and sales.

We are supposed to have a capitalist country where companies innovate or they fail. I once owned a GM product and it was the worst car I’ve ever owned. My family now owns a Mazda and a Toyota. GM needs to convince consumers and investors they are worth saving, not the government. They obviously have not.

It is an inappropriate role of government to force taxpayers to bailout a company they think is a bad investment, that produces products consumers don’t want. People will still buy cars and auto parts and GM workers can apply for jobs with Toyota and Hyundai. Those people who want a bailout don’t need the government to do it. They can pool there money and invest it in GM themselves if they think that is a wise course of action. But they should speak with their own money, not mine.

The auto executives in Washington did not appear to be savvy to the new world order. Could they restructure GM into a competitive force under the umbrella of backruptcy? I seriously doubt it, whether it’s managed by the executives or by the feds. Let’s face it. The auto industry must be nationalized and permanently subsidized, or else be allowed to die a natural death.

Bankruptcy is not the answer. GM has lots of new product about to premier. They have come a long way with vehicles and I’d put most on par with the Japanese. The best car I’ve driven in a long time was a 2005 Cadillac STS, smooth, quiet, powerful. It really shocked me to be a GM car. Along with the CTS, Malibu, Corvette… all are class leaders. This is the NEW Gm. All they need is time to show these new products. I do agree they need more smaller cars. If they only produce the concepts they’ve recently showed… the young buyers would purchase GM instead of Toyota. Another point about big vehicles… GM was making what Americans WANTED. All cars are bigger now, look at the Honda Civic, Toyota Tundra, ect. GM can’t retool in 1 year just because the market has turned for the worst for larger vehicles. With the new contracts about to start, the health care on the union now… load GM the money just like the government did for Chrysler in the early 80’s… they will return a profit for the American taxpayer.

I DO NOT KNOW WHICH CAR COMPANY WILL GO BROKE, BUT, I WOULD ASSUME THE SAME NUMBER OF CARS WILL BE BOUGHT REGARDLESS. IF THAT IS TRUE, WHEN ONE GOES DOWN, THE OTHERS WILL IMMEDIATELY HAVE MORE BIZ, BE OK AND PROFITABLE, AND HAVE TO HIRE MORE WORKERS…SO IN THE LONG RUN, LET THE BUYERS CHOOSE WHO WILL STAY AND WHO WILL GO.

They made mistakes and they need to learn from this, let’em go bankruptcy and America will be fine.

Indeed. A bailout would enable the sort of behavior that has led to its present predicament. It takes consequence to change behavior. Great consequence to bring about great change. I am a GM supporter. I own 2 GM vehicles. Let GM bankrupt and rebuild with new tools and a new mentality.

I am American as the next guy but GM and the others in the car industry have not gotten the big picture. We can’t afford to pay our employees the kind of money the union has been extorting from the car industry. We can’t afford the benefits either. We have to be competitive in our market place. Trucks and SUV’s have been overpriced for decades. The Japanese came out with a much more affordable product and while GM was asleep at the wheel they took the business away. I’ve heard buy American. The last two parts I got for my GM pickup were made in China. The marriage with the oil industry and the lack of serious alternative fuel vehicles is making the US auto industry to go belly up. Unless they change there way of doing business they will be foreign owned or go completely out of business. We should not bail them out. If we try to fill a bucket with a hole in the bottom without first fixing the hole we are just throwing away the money. Get competitive, be realistic and go to market like the rest of the entrepeneurs or become another economic tragedy. The consumer is voting with their freedom to purchase. If GM puts the consumer first they will regain their market share. If not the Prius and the coming plug-ins and other green cars will continue to take over the consumer market. There is nothing patriotic about fossil fuel guzzling vehicles. There are companies that can make cars that go over 200 miles on an electric charge before having to be recharged and they get over 200 mpg eqivalent. GM’s whopping 20 mpg with a hybrid truck or suv is pitiful. They have had the technology to do better for years. They are now paying the price for not offering this to the consumers.

Of course GM should file and be allowed to file for bankruptcy. While listening to the CEO’ testify the other day it became really evident that they, the CEO’ had no clue. It was also pointed out that the politicians don’t really have that much larger of a magnifying glass either.

Here is my point. US auto sales are declining, for various reasons. American car sales are declining fastest, not Honda or Toyota or Nissan….We also can probably agree that with the economy the way it is, Americans will not be buying a lot of cars in the near future. Also, as pointed out in the article, sales have been declining for the big three for years…and years…and years. And lastly, the Big Three are hamstrung by their relationship with the unions, which does share in the responsibility for the big Three’s collapse, despite what the president of the unions would like us all to believe.

So given the realities of the market and the history of the past performance, why would any investor, and that is what the tax payers are here, invest in a bridge loan? Especially when the people asking for the loan can not tell you how much they need to run their business.

Bankruptcy at this point may really be the only thing that can save these companies. This will give them the opportunity to possibly relocate their headquarters, move to southern states where the unions do not have a choke hold and costs are about 1/2 and rethink their notion that quality is derived by pure cost reduction. I am not sure where they get that idea, but I am sure it has to do with a ratio of complaints to cost. This is their opportunity to show what US ingenuity can do, or they can get out of the way of the competition.

I think so. A bankruptcy will allows GM to re-org completely, get rid of its union contract, and change the high-level management. Otherwise, GM will be hard to compete with TOYOTA, HONDA, etc.

I personally think that if we as citizens have to lose our homes and cars, why do we have to bail out these big companys that are living high on the hog? These Fortune 500 companies did this to themselves I think they need to get out of this by themselves. With all these billions of dollars they are spending to help these rich people they could give the money to all the poor people, then I bet that will kick the economy back into shape. What’s going to happen when we spend all this money on helping them and they still do not make it? Then it is left to us citizens, poor and rich to pull these companies out again. I say let them FALL, just like many Americans are doing.

Yes, until they face the trueth, they will never deal with the issues before them.

Bankruptcy, aye. What’s needed to change GM is a cultural overhaul not a financial one. They had the resources, time, and money to change but did not.

GM negotiated contracts with the UAW that makes it noncompetative in a global market, while the executives pull in absurd compensation and fly around in the now infamous corporate aircraft. And you want to use my tax dollars to subsudize this level of fiscal incompetence? Is this the “CHANGE” that Barack, Nancy, and Harry support. And the news media crucifies Palin for her wardrobe..

Possibly, but it will be a tough one. GM certainly needs to realize that the market today is global and many years have passed since the day it dominated the US market. No more paying overly generous wages and pension benefits to union workers. If Toyota can do and thrive without union workers, why can’t GM?

Yes! Chapter 11 will allow GM time to restructure and reorganize. It simply needs to be said that the UAW contract requirements need to be scrapped for this company to be competitive. The US taxpayer is probably going to have to eat the Big 3 pension requirement; don’t make us eat more of this stupidity. If the UAW doesn’t like it, let them put their money where their mouth is….use your pension holdings as the bridge loan to prop up this fetid mess. $58/hr for a line worker with benefits?…simply not based in today’s global reality.

Sure it is… especially if the legacy costs need to be thrown on the shoulders of the PBGC. Workers need to understand this, “restructuring” essentially means that the deal they made 10, 20 , 30 years ago with you about the long term security you would have by trading your limited number of heartbeats on this planet for some paper “currency” and a “benefit” package is now being called-off. You see, while they were doing that, your various government agencies were allowing the cheap importing of products from countries with a significantly lower standard of living. Thus, your company was slowly dying–but you didn’t see it at first–

The reason? enter the banker. The Fed allowed lending standards to evolve to such a degree that most everyone was able to obtain financing for almost anything. So, while we were being de-industrialized using– our own capitalistic economic engine against us–other countries were now being made viable “trading” partners…eventually they mattered, now they are integral. Standards of living equalized— for them to go up, we must go down. Our industry is now service based.
The government, by not handicapping the imports thru tariffs, etc… allowed cheap slave labor to cause our industries to search for profits by using those slaves (from various countries)… and at the same time taxation at all levels has increased so our treadmill continues to speed along so you and I remain exhausted…with the net effect of larger government, planned society and new, open markets abroad. Globalism, “the great salvation” achieves equilibrium or homeostasis thru bringing us down and others up.
GM will get their bailout and then send $1Billion to Brazil and other key markets…Wow, I didn’t realize the Federal government needed their economic foothold in every continent?<–sarcasm.
Let’s follow the logic:
1) Corporation starts with good business model, operates efficiently and makes profit–and prior to unions and govt intervention (OSHA, EPA, IRS, etc…) production costs are very minimal, thus profitability easy.
1) The Large multinational Corporation grows and makes ponzi-like promises of future beneifts (not unlike SS) to employees (under the guise of acquiesence to labor unions…), all the while government grows…
2) When emerging markets finally become viable, the foreign foothold is gained thru government complicity and favorable taxation/laws, etc… but govt here continues to grow and make profitability burdensome (esp for startups..ie: competition who do not yet have the economies-of-scale to compete)
3) Debt Refinancing/Restructuring occurs at the same time the government throws off the mask and makes it known to all they they are in fact married to the Large corporation or vice versa..you pick.
4) Future benefits are drastically cut/thrown off to another government run entity (PBGC) during restructuring.
5) Corporation/Govt operates in other countries (new markets) with taxpayer funding to operate at first– benefits will not be offered to the new foreign employees as govt protections for them are not yet in place… but once large corporation has enough market share to dominate (or share it with a select few other corps…in the sense of your garden variety “cartel”)– govt will work hand-in-hand to enact laws that, on the surface, seem to protect the employee and the environment… but in reality protect their position and prominence.

So, what does this all mean? GM isn’t going anywhere!…Except maybe other places around the globe.

I really do feel for the employees of GM and their suppliers. Who would of thought that we would be in a day when GM would go the way of the dinosaur. But lets look at the facts. Foreign automakers are making cars that will get 200 or 300 hundred tousand miles for a lot cheaper then GM’s cars who if they go to 150 without major problems then you are doing good. Plus look at the domanance of big SUVs and trucks in their fleet. No one wants to give their hard earned money to pay for the gas.

GM’s solution. File bankruptcy. Drop the entire product line. Introduce two are three killer hybrid cars or Plug in Vehicles. For a cost of under $5000 each and reinvent yourself as a competitor in the auto industry.

Let the Big Three go into bankruptcy. The two most important affects are Union leaders, GM Executives, and agreements between the two will be temrinated.

Turn the company over to rank and file workers to force hard but important “collective” decision-making for companies to survive. Once workers understand it’s their company, their cars, their revenue, their profit, their jobs change happens. Big leaders; company, unions, government and others failed their most important responsibility. To keep Big 3 solvent so thousand of workers could work.

Bankruptcy is the way to go. GM and the other automakers are in BIG trouble. Reorganizing is something a company should do on their own when you see you are falling behind the in the industry. The Big 3 failed to do this in a timely manner. Buyouts of their workers and changing the production system is a good start, but it is too little and too late. Foreign carmakers are way ahead on this and have over taken the sleeping, shuffling giants. I live in Michigan and any change in the industry is exremely painfull, but NOT re-organizing will likely kill all three companies in few years and they have no one to blame but themselves.

File for Bankruptcy, reorganize become very competitive and change the auto industry culture to become a lean mean manufacturing machine. Make the competition stand up and take notice.

Workers, suppliers and company workers are going to feel a terrible squeeze and they should. Bankrupcy makes everyone stand up and take notice that there must be a big change in the way things are done. You are either on board and commited or you walk away.

Do it now while we are in a recession and in a few year when our economy is booming again. The Big 3 will be poised to become industry leaders again they can be the model for American manufacturing instead of a sad footnote on what bad managment can do to an industry.

Bankruptcy would be the best way because they would have to get rid of all the heavy baggage that is pulling them down. A fresh start without all the baggage they would be able to focus only on producing a product that could out proform thier competitors.

No question about it. If nothing else BK is the only way to trim down the dealer network, which must be done. They don’t have the money to buy out any dealers and they can’t support this massive dealer network with their ever-dwindling market share. It’s a no brainer – either take drastic action now (which they should have had the foresight to do years ago) or continue to slowly slide into the abyss.

The essence of capitalism is that good business models are allowed to succeed without limit, thus rewarding the risk takers. The necessary corollary is that bad business models are allowed to fail and make room for the better application of capital. GM must be allowed to fail.

A complete reorganization is imperative. Covernemental bailout plans would only buy time at their best.
GM is simply too large to stay competetive in very dynamic automotive industry. Secondly, GM has accumulated huge balance sheet liabilities, which were defined in times when competition was limited and company consolidated american market.

Steps to be taken are the following two: first ax the oversized benefits to the level which is bearable. Secondly split the company into entities which can be agile enough in current competetive environment and would give a new and fresh look for these new endeavours.

Absolutely…. GM needs to become a smaller, leaner company to compete. A bankruptcy will help them to get rid of redundant and unprofitable product lines (good bye GMC, Buick, Pontiac, Saab and Hummer) and renegotiate ridiculous labor costs with the unions.

Regardless of the final business fix for the auto industry, the value of the existing plant and the R&D on high mileage vehicles should be retained intake. The replacement of these would be too expensive and would take too long to duplicate.

High mpg autos are the future. The knowledge and ability to produce them is worth many times their book value. With the economy in it’s present state of chaos, it would be utter stupidity to allow these two aspects of the American auto industry to be lost. Using the existing plants and the high mpg R&D as a starting point, the auto industry should be redeveloped by the government.

It will preserve many jobs. It will bring tens of thousands of efficient vehicles to American roads in a very short period of time. Both of these goals are very high on the national priority list at this time.

The waste of these two precious resources is unthinkable in this economy.

I think they should file for bankruptcy and rework the union contracts and those of the top floor. They say no one will buy cars from a bankrupt company but, is anyone buying them now? The big three did not seem to learn from the energy crisis in the 70’s when the Japanese auto’s got their foothold. If they were given money the money last week they asked for, it would have been welfare.

I firmly believe that the only way out for the big three, is to VERY VERY quickly come to the realization that they need to merge and become ONE. They need to forget their EGOS!!!!
I truly believe that none of them will survive unless they act VERY quickly and decisively and pool their resources to design, build and develop 21st century vehicles rather than the fuel guzzling monsters they have been making for FAR TOO long.
The US needs to consider and take notice of the rest of the world for a change and stop being so insular!!!

The auto companies do not deserve assistance from the tax payers. They lobbied for access to foreign markets for decades in order to save money; now the foreign markets are eating them!

They will continue to lay off workers, cut benefits and close plants in the US, while moving manufacturing to the cheapest country of the current year.

As an insider, I could never understand how companies this size with thousands of engineers and designers could get it wrong so many times. When working with the Japanese manufacturers, I could see why they got it right!

There is a broken business model in Detroit. Let the market settle this whole issue. The Asian’s will pick up the slack when Detroit goes down.

Chapter 11 is the only way…the union contracts have to go or you will never have a business model that works and a product the public can afford…by the way, while your at why don’t you get serious about fuel efficiency, you’ve fought it for decades…

Yes. Restructuring under bankruptcy is required. Many in our country have to realize that our standard of living must change, not necessarily drop too much, but change. Tax payers should not fund dividends to bank stock holders, or retirement benifits to GM workers. We must all start making ourselves more wealthy by keeping our needs few. That will also lower economic activity, but we can not sustain a fake unsupportable level of economic activity indefinitely. We must stop artifically raising our standard of living by buying cheaper items from China. We must manufacture here more, at lower US manufacturing wages and benifits and the general consumers must learn to enjoy life with less. Only then can we find a balance that does not eventually drain the nation of its general wealth. It is the American people that drove GM down, by demanding bigger stuff all the time. When gas prices drop, we go right back to it, RV sales jump, SUV sales jump. It is not very flattering to be American these days. We look stupid and of a very temporary mindset. None-the-less, only when the true medicine is taken will we begin the long process of healing to a long term viable economy.

No bankruptcy is not the answer. But Wagoner and others at the top have to go! They have done more to ruin GM than anything else.

No The company and the union has already made changes for the better. This is a very bad economy everyone is hurting no one else is being put through hoops. Remember nafca started all the problems. Big oil companies with there triple digit profits. But hey if your into oil i guess its OK

It is hard to imagine a company this big will collapse so easily. Certainly I am not a top executive or someone who has a porfolio of billions. However, any average people can certainly point out the problems within GM: the mismanagement, the overlapping brands that compete with each others, the old ideas that don’t work in morden days, just to name a few. All these problems cannot easily be fixed with 25 billions of lifeline. Giving them money blindly will only prolong the company’s struggle and will only give the gov’t more debt in the future. The GM leadership team will have to really think about how to turn around the company, such as elimiate some brands, eliminate unneccessary cost (like corporate bonus, corporate jet), and stick to the basic without too many fancy baggages.

The leadership team needs to remember the simple economy rule “there is no such thing as free lunch”, if they want to earn the lifeline from gov’t, they will have to think of some ideas that are cost effective and innovative. With economy enviornemnt like this, anything short of innovative will probably not work, at least not for GM.

ONLY REPUBLICAN HATE MONGERS WITH A BURNING DESIRE TO DESTROY THE DEMOCRATIC ICON THAT IS DETROIT WOULD ESPOUSE THIS SOLUTION.

Bankruptcy is the only way GM can get their costs under control. UAW workers make too much money and have too many fringe benefits. And a lot of UAW workers don’t care about doing a good job. Just interested in pay day and sundown. EXcessive pay and workmanship are GM’s biggest problem in my opion. I am a retired airline employee and I have watched employees take huge pay cuts and layoffs. Some have shut down and have not asked the government to bail them out. Why should auto companies be bailed out when the problems are still there?